Here retarded niggers let me make it very simple for you

electric vehicles

Are passenger airlines vehicles?
Are fighter jets vehicles?
Are container ships vehicles?
Are tanker ships vehicles?
Are heavy trains vehicles?
Are any of them electric, or will ever be electric?
NO

electric vehicles are still far more efficient resulting in much less energy usage for transportation

I don't buy vehicles for efficiency, I buy them for utility and fun, and EVs are useless for utility and fun.

I don't care about your science, faggot. I will never ever ever ever EVER buy an EV. Fuck you.

Are heavy trains vehicles?

Are any of them electric, or will ever be electric?

dumbass

I fucking hate electric vehicles. I’m currently sitting in my Tesla at a supercharger waiting for this piece of shit to charge so I can go home and charge it some more. It’s constant charging with these useless niggers

Here's your efficiency, bro.

I'm sorry, I would type something longer but I only have about 15 more seconds before my car is fuel and I'm good for 2 weeks.

thats how i know i didnt want a tesla, i already had a "smart" phone that is constantly wanting to be recharged

Only faggots, low testosterone cucks and women drive electric.
Kill yourself and livestream it you lowlife fucking scum amerimutt, you amount to nothing in life and probably were watching blacked cuck porn when you made this post, fucking kike

Make ICE engines more efficient

What ever happened to hydrogen cars?

i don't understand what point you are making
i think you just had a funny webm

Even if we kept every single coal and fossil fuel burning power plant exactly the same, electric vehicles are still far more efficient resulting in much less energy usage for transportation.

Cool story bro but how are you going support the increased demand for electricity if everyone drives electric cars?
Further more the USA is a very large country. Someone can very easily eat up an electric vehicles puny range in a few hours of driving and have to wait hours to recharge where as gas/diesel vehicles can replenish their range in 2 minutes at any pump

Heavy trains, not commuter trains.
You have to be at least 18 to post here, fren.
No commuter train is going to pull this, and the long haul precludes both overhead lines and batteries.

The push towards EVs is to put you on a grid you can't escape, which goes hand in hand with the push for walkable cities which defines the grid. That train there is literally what they want to see, maximum efficiency at the cost of comfort, quality of life and indidivual freedom

I love my Tesla. Couldn't imagine going back to combustion. Damn thing needs very little msintencenin comparison to s gas engine and gets me ,about 9 cents a gallon cost wise converted

Oh and there is the fact I can go 0-100 in less than 2 seconds. So much better than gas

Inb4 flammable battery

Better than sitting on a bathtub full of explosive gasoline

they are super efficient. Notice the mechanical's drive train is much more efficient. We have been designing these for over 100 years. Most of the people here dont even understand except this guy: That is the unfair comparison; different scopes of the total thermodynamic system. No one is asking about the "free heat" lost energy during making the electricity that gets charged. It doesn't matter how this heat gets generated - IT IS GOING TO BE GENERATED IN PROPORTION TO THE ENERGY PRODUCED, THEREFORE ENERGY CONSUMED NO MATTER THE FORM OF ENERGY. LOOK UP CARNOT EFFICIENCY.

i guess its just impossible to build big electric trains
its like a quantum physical impossibility
no one has ever tried
they don't already exist
and you DEFINITELY can't have multiple engines in the same train

Those are electrically driven with diesel generators. Electric motors have more torque than any internal combustion engine.

Nigga you schizo. There are solar panels for these things now

3-5% drivetrain loss
lmao what is this dipshits background in? gardening?
80-90% of an ICE's power goes to the wheels

if your head isn't in the sand you're a schizo

lol ok retard.

Oh my Science this is so efficient

Electric vehicles can't even start in cold weather. Your argument is invalid.

That’s not true. The majority of the energy from internal combustion engines is lost as heat.

me reddit brain

me not no fisics

how electricity are made?

If it's so efficient to produce electricity why does it cost so much in liberal areas where they want these cars to exist?

1pbtid

Faggot.

post meme infograph

1pbtid

I'm not going to listen to some retard who barely passed HS (if they even are at that age) about physics.

Don't ya know, everyone is uninstalling natural gas furnaces and installing baseboard heating because it's so much easier, cheaper and more efficient.

like 5%. are you retarded?

It's like 3%-8% from station to sub-station to plug. Sometimes even in the double digits depending on how far and how it's managed.

regulations? you mean tariffs?

like 5%

You are the retarded here. You have to start counting from the energy content of the fossil fuel.
"Typical thermal efficiency for utility-scale electrical generators is around 37% for coal and oil-fired plants, and 56 – 60% (LEV) for combined-cycle gas-fired plants"
Source wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossil_fuel_power_station

OK, so right off the hop we've lost another 5 ish %. How much of the fuel consumed at the station is lost as heat and other inefficiencies in the generator?

retarded take that energy lose is already built in the grind management, you not using ev doesn't mean there isn't grid lose.

That's just cast iron proven physics that electric motors are far more efficient than fossil fuel combustion engines could ever hope to be

People dont dislike EVs because they hate efficiency, they hate EVs because of their limited range and their long charging times once the range is depleted.

If you are a loser that leaves their house twice a week and travels a total of 50miles per week, then yeah EVs are pretty awesome. If you are someone that has to make regular trips exceeding 300 miles you will begin to hate EVs and EV charging infrastructure with a burning passion. Especially if you have to tow things or take really long trips like from the Midwest to Florida, EVs are just laughable.

I am not against EVs, but if you are thinking about buying one you should rent a Tesla for a few weeks or a month and see how you like it. If it works for you, it works for you, if it doesnt it doesnt. It is not the job of consumers to adopt technology that doesnt make their lives better; if technology makes their lives better people will adopt it as soon as they can possibly afford it. People are rational beings, and generally want to improve their own lives if nothing else.

Trains and ships are hybrids, at best. I won't count nuclear because that is usually reserved for military use. Planes and jets will never be electric because thrust is part of aviation motion and electric aircraft like drones simply don't have scalable capacity or range.

you the dumb dumb.
power plants have 20-60% effeciencies.
5% or so laoss for transmission to charger
ac to dc conversion is 5-10% drivetrain is 85%.

Some trains and basically all ships are electric, you just don't power em with batteries, silly cunt.

not with gasoline. combined cycle gas turbines are much more efficient than cars at extracting power from fossil fuels, i wouldn't be surprised if the overall efficiency of gas to electricity to ev is higher than an ICE vehicle.

So if I use more energy at the plug the plant doesn't need to generate more energy to provide it? So there's perpetual energy so long as the grid is managed? I'm glad to hear that, you've really set my mind at ease. Anyways is your house heated with natural gas or baseboard heating?

itt we discuss jewish magic

It’s all moot. Oil is a renewable resource. It’s abiotic.

20 yo TDI just fucks up any tesla by costs savings plus gasses the kike with beautiful NOx smoke

regulations? you mean tariffs?

No safety regulations.

We lose even more energy from the lack of storing it and the the constant production than we do moving it far distances and reducing the voltage. It's why most local Power Company buys more power than produces because some other place made to much and wants money back.

My god, this thread is full of mouth breathers.

Well no, you see when you burn carbon that's it. It's gone forever and can never find its way back into the ecosystem

AO destroys the jews

electric cars have to be continually recharged
a gas vehicle can sit for years and still start right up
efficient my ass

Generators are pretty efficient, the issue is the charging inefficiencies of batteries when nearing 100%.

that's not what was asked, retard. "between the generating station and the plug" refers to transmission losses, which are about 5%.
power plant scale turbines are considerably more efficient than the engine in your car. also 20% of US electricity output comes from renewables.
see above. these studies that determine EVs are more efficient are net of generation, transmission, AC/DC conversion, rectification, and drivetrain losses.

dipping into safety for economy

thinks safety can only mean excessive mass

come on now

Where does the energy for the fuel cells come from?
Where do the raw earth materials come from?

This was the most retarded theory back in 2009 I can't believe there are still retards that preach it now honestly.

Have you tried not burning coal?

Great. You have the option of buying one. I have the option of not buying one.

Not a refutation nor an argument.

the issue is the charging inefficiencies of batteries when nearing 100%.

Yeah, you should really keep batteries at 90-75% charge anyway. That removes a large amount of storage just to increase lifespan.

you could have affordable chinese EV that pass all the safety regulations if you didn't have a 100% tariff on them

Americans think electric trains are magical

lol

What is strip mining lithium.
Why do batteries loose half their capacity after a few years?
Why do scrap yards get paid by the government to dispose old lithium batteries?

considerably more

use numbers

renewables

what a nonsense term. it never becomes less nonsensical. oil is 'renewable'.

these studies

which studies? let's scrutinize them

40% of our output is nuclear or renewable.
batteries don't lose half their capacity after a year. teslas with 200k miles are showing 80% of initial capacity.

EVs are very inefficient and probably last 10 years or so. Why do you think they cost so much? Because they're extremely energy intensive to produce. Also the Plug in hybrid i use at work gets 20mpg because they're so heavy. My diesel gets 65mpg+

What are peak hours? The point is that any statement that resembles

lol the vehicle is x% efficient

or whatever is bullshit on its face. You still need to generate and transport that power, and if enough people start using it then the grid and plants will have no choice but to be expanded, which will multiply those inefficiencies. Again, there are lots of things in this world other than cars that are run off of fuel that could be run off of batteries but aren't because of any number of reasons.

we can see celestial bodies that have hydrocarbons but no organic life

explain

Chinese cars are subsidized by the Chinese government. They want to sell cars cheaply to drive foreign companies out of business. They recently bought a steel refinery in Britain and Britain had to prevent them from actually entering the refinery because all they wanted to do is sabotage their own refinery.

EVs are environmental disasters, and anyone who hasn't asked themselves "why are these things so expensive?" can't go around accusing anyone of retardation.
Their high price, even after government subsidies, are from the wholesale environmental destruction neccessary for their manufacture. And we haven't yet realised the expense of disposal at the end of their service lives.
The same people who believe in covid shots, and the ukraine, and global warming, can't figure out why EVs are another hoax.

Listen faggot. I DONT FUCKING CARE.

Are you stupid?

Most EV's don't fully charge or discharge the battery.
When it says "100%" it's probably more like 90% of the true capacity.

Tesla even let people unlock the hidden capacity during a hurricane, not great for long term battery life but a good idea in an emergency.

buy ad retard

use numbers

ICE commuter vehicle 20-30% thermal efficiency
combined cycle natural gas 60% efficiency
combustion only natural gas 35-40% efficiency

combined cycle natural gas is the majority of OUTPUT of all natural gas OUTPUT in the US. before your stupid ass quotes the "uhhmm actually it's only 58%" statistic, which is still the majority, that 58% refers to the NUMBER of plants and not the OUTPUT.

what a nonsense term. it never becomes less nonsensical. oil is 'renewable'.

a solar panel lasts 25 years with only negligible degradation in output capacity. oil is renewable only to the extent that rate of usage does not exceed rate of regeneration.

which studies? let's scrutinize them

literally the OP. yaleclimateconnections.org/2022/08/electrifying-transportation-reduces-emissions-and-saves-massive-amounts-of-energy/

what if that wasn't true, and they are just more efficient at making EVs? they would still drive foreign companies out of business all the same.

being proud of destroying your environment

spiritually third world nigger behavior.

Take this from an owner of an electric car. The batteries degrade rapidly, the range is shit, and it takes forever to charge. It is much cheaper to drive given charging fees are basically free and it rarely require maintenance.

strip mining lithium.

Not a thing.
Lithium is found as part of salt formations.
Salt is a mix if mostly sodium chlorine (NaCl) with a small amount of lithium chlorine (LiCl)
Most lithium is "mined" from salt planes where it's simply scooped from the surface, just needs processing to separate the lithium salt from the sodium salt.

The only reason the ICE car is considered "inefficient" is because of the absurd energy density of hydrocarbons. No shit a liquid that needs a rain drop of volume to move a 2 ton car is going to be considered inefficient when we're blowing it up and capturing some of the explosion to convert to mechanical energy. It's a marvel of engineering we're able to do so much with so little. That, using the equivalent gas to power a generator wouldn't produce as much electricity as is needed to move an EV, so it's still better to use in engines.

Nice article. Not much of a study but certainly one of the articles of all time.

but it lists its sources

which are also mostly articles lol. I've been playing this game longer than you've been alive likely and it's always the same shit.

electric: 90% of energy from coal

gas: 100% energy from recycled dinosaurs

The only reason the ICE car is considered "inefficient" is because of the absurd energy density of hydrocarbons

that's not true at all. the carnot cycle is a theoretical construct and its maximum efficiency in an ideal world is 37%.

This doesn't seem to take into consideration the the extreme low battery performance in non optimal temperature conditions, which is a high percentage of use time.

How much efficiency and loss is there in non optimal temperature conditions? It certainly isn't 90% energy to tires.

using the equivalent gas to power a generator wouldn't produce as much electricity as is needed to move an EV

Yes it does.
It's a LOT more officient.
Even running EV's purely off coal is more efficient than using internal combustion engines.

People greatly underestimate how efficient large power plants are and how inefficient their tiny ICE engine is.

Lol

we have shitskins though, so we can never have functional and affordable public transit systems. babysitting non-whites is more important than having a great society.

who cares you boring fuck

Most EV's have thermal management systems for their batteries now.
It's really a non-issue.

How much coal and oil is used to create the electricity for your infrastructure?

a jeet in jeetland

Not my problem you brown skinned filth.

None. The power of nucleus

KYS faggot

I don't want to be near a cancer inducing battery you can feel in your bones (but not in a cool way like a combustion engine).

He doesn't know about American safety regulations and how Obama era regulations did more to sell giant gas guzzler trucks than hybrid or electric

Yeah, I heard of tesla unlocking them if you oay aswell.

The thing is that the larger the battery the more room you have to play with in that sweetspot. This is where it becomes tricky because people end up with massive heavy batteries because they want to increase the size of the "sweet spot".

What we really need is something like f1 has where they use centrifugal energy storage to boost power when needed and lower the actual potential output of the motors themselves. You could have cars with maybe 100hp if that that could boost up to 300hp for brief moments.

Power the centrifuge with breaking and you have a great way of accelerating after a stop without having to use any form of battery.

nobody is buying your man-made global warming bullshit anymore shlomo, give up

i know about the 100% tariff on Chinese EVs, though. i am pretty sure that has some effect on the availability of affordable EVs in the US market.

10% charging loss

lmaooooo
Jesus christ retards like this are actually making decisions, people. We're so abysmally fucked.

It’s just unburnt diesel, it falls down and makes a spot and is washed away into insignificance far far better than what actual third worlds do.

they are just more efficient at making EVs?

Yeah, slavery is super efficient. We dont you just make a car and give it to me for free. That would be even more efficient.

Depends heavily on the source of said electricity. Fuel is a primary source of energy released through combustion, electricity is stored energy released through combustion/fission or else before being stored in a battery.

something like f1 has where they use centrifugal energy storage to boost power

F1 had that back in the 2010's.
Modern F1 uses batteries which can store a lot more power than KERS.

what if that also wasn't true, and if, for example, China had better worker protections than the US, while still being able to produce them at a much lower price? would that change your mind?

If only I could get a BYD...

I'm asking OP, not you. Clearly your country doesn't have a bunch of degenerate Nuclear NIMBYists.

The only thing that could change my mind would be a Chinese woman.

electricity grows on trees

combined cycle gas turbines are much more efficient than cars at extracting power from fossil fuels

Only if you have something to use the heat for. And since nobody is actually doing that, you have to look at the efficiency of real power generation that is actually being used to charge the cars, dumbfuck.

China is mostly more efficient at making batteries.
And this is because they:
1) Learned how to use cheaper materials in their batteries.
2) Mass produce battery cells on a much larger scale.

It has nothing to do with slavery, they just have better technology and better access to cheap resources.
Ironically it's mainly western EV's that still use cobalt which is known to be mined through slavery while China stepped away from cobalt (because it's expensive, not because they give a shit about slavery)

combined cycle turbines do reuse the heat, that's why they are called that way. they achieve over 60% gas to electricity efficiency

you aren't understanding what he's saying.

Electric cars are 100% less efficient because regular cars use 0 electricity from your already overtaxed grid.

They use the heat to generate electricity.
They burn fuel to drive a gas turbine and then use the excess heat to drive a steam turbine.

Some day an electric vehicle might be cheaper than a petrol vehicle but right now I can buy a low mileage skoda fabia (only crashed once) for €7000 and it will scoot me around my city for basically nothing. It might even have resale value.

Electric vehicles cant beat that.

You know I'd be okay with the bullshit magical thinking claims being made here if anyone was talking about building the couple of dozen nuke plants that would make mass EVs a sensible option.
Instead we have fuckwits wiffling on about solar.

Just charge overnight.
The grid has plenty of unused capacity when most people are sleeping, when if everybody owned an EV and charged it at night it would still cause less load on the grid than during peak hours.

good luck convincing a burger of that. they just don't care about the reality.

Is mayonnaise a vehicle?

Yeah OP’s image convenient ignores voltage drop and transformer losses. These “green energy” stuff is just lies and scams all around. If they were serious about conserving resources they would promote making products that last.

an idle stored battery leaks energy, leave an ev for 3 months and when you return there's a good chance you'll have lost all that stored energy and most cars spend most of their time idle meaning they are all just sat there pissing energy away for nothing, an ice on the other hand might need a jump start but little to no loss of the stored energy will be incurred

"ICE" vehicles all generate their power on demand. ICE vehicles are all individually their own power generation plant.
Battery cars run on energetic "credit", nothing but stored electrons. Politically, this it's more a subscrption to energy, without the ability to generate it. This is the real political will behind battery cars, and the push binding (forcing by incremental legistation over a long term) consumer energy usage to the electrical grid.

ICE commuter vehicle 20-30% thermal efficiency

combined cycle natural gas 60% efficiency

combustion only natural gas 35-40% efficiency

ICE efficiencies really haven't been that had since the 80's, really. Modern engines are much more efficient now, and that's not including the times when they're 'combined cycle' generation plants themselves, such as when using cabin heating. Consumer diesel engines are achieivng over 40% thermal efficiency. High efficiency consumer Gasoline engines not far behind. Large industrial ICE can achieve even greater TE due to their scale.

a solar panel lasts 25 years with only negligible degradation

In theory. Real life factors ensure that this isn't much of a reality. Solar efficiency varies, they're loaded with heavy metals and again, are typically destroyed by some other factor than degredtion.

in output capacity. oil is renewable only to the extent that rate of usage does not exceed rate of regeneration.

Oil's the best. No one can credibly prove what usage exceeds production, as no one can credibly prove the rate of production, since these morons can't even agree on what oil really is.

But I'll tell you what, vegetation across the globe loves our combustion!

this is a pretty good point

This is horseshit anon. Look at what happens in the UK when there's an ad break.

no driving at night

It's worse than I thought.

And I'm sure a lack of giving a shit about worker rights, environmental protection and other such unimportant things have absolutely nothing to do with it whatsoever. You seem very unbiased lol

EV battery self discharge rate is about 2% per month. a tank of fuel goes bad (lower molecular weight hydrocarbons evaporate away) in about the same period of time.

Make electric cars less gay then I might consider getting one.

Nobody will care about EV's until we get rid of all the temu chinesium slop on the markets.

This is peak retardation

Its an internal combustion engine you fucking queer not an internal heat capture and utilization engine, the only losses are crankshaft rotation and aux items like a water pump or alternator.

I dare you to be less convincing

make products that last

Now now, that can't happen. You mean you don't believe that the people doing this shit bbc.com/news/articles/c9vy191rgn1o don't have the best interests of the environment at heart?

temu chinesium slop on the markets.

but limited, cheap chinese communism motoring is literally quintessential "EV"

ICE efficiencies really haven't been that had since the 80's, really. Modern engines are much more efficient now

you have no idea what you're talking about. see >Real life factors ensure that this isn't much of a reality.
you're completely wrong. i quoted real world degradation.

Yeah we know

Even if they had some plan to use the heat lost in an internal combustion engine they'd still be burning gas to utilize it. They're talking about removing a vast source of energy with no plan to replace it.

you're talking to someone who doesn't understand what thermal efficiency is.

EV battery self discharge rate is about 2% per month

bullshit, this is in ideal conditions with a perfect battery, mostly conditions aren't ideal and the efficiency of batteries falls off pretty quickly and then exponentially but why not have the roof be a solar panel to offset leakage, petrol lasts way longer and will still be usable after some years as anyone who's fired up an old car knows
Also the energy cost of producing batteries is far in excess of an ice

Do you have something in mind to replace the energy we use in our cars or do you just want an excuse to shut the power off?

How is it relevant to the conversation in the first place?

By "Night" I meant 1 AM to 6 AM
Not 8 PM.

You mean prime trucker hours? Sounds awful.

Its not a thermal efficiency engine fagot.
Bunch of fucking retards comparing apples and oranges.

nigger i have 18650 batteries in storage and i can VERIFY PERSONALLY the monthly self discharge rate. you have no idea what you're talking about.
~60% of the energy in gasoline is lost to the environment in an ICE engine. ~15% of the energy in a battery is lost to the environment in an inverter-motor system.

Yeah and by "charge a giant EV battery overnight" you didn't mean "boil a kettle for 2 minutes" either.

you have no idea what thermal efficiency means, do you. you're going to quote the wikipedia article without understanding what it means, aren't you. have you taken high school or college physics?

You go to bed and it will be charged in the morning.
And no, you don't plug it in at 1AM, you plug it in when you arrive, it's 2025, we have timer technology.

you have no idea what you're talking about. see

the ICE is not a 'heat engine' in that sense, it's a chemical engine and the 'thermal efficiency' is determined by the total caloric content of the chemical fuel vs the measured net output.
trying to apply the carnot cycle limitation of a gas-heat engine just says you have no idea what you''re talking about

i quoted real world degradation.

you quoted garbage that ignores the my point; physical damage (weather, seismicity). PV is one of the least valuable energy sources online.

That's a great deal when you take into consideration that it costs 0 electricity. What else are you going to use the gas for? You don't want to just remove energy, do you?

But you don't keep them the same. Demand for power multiplies. It's overall less emissions than gasoline, but you are talking about an absolutely huge national undertaking. Hundreds of new power plants of all kinds need to be built so that shipping lanes can have charging stations, and right now it would bring shipping to it's knees due to charging times vastly exceeding fueling times.

It's not a bad long term goal, really. But to mandate it quickly serves no purpose. All cars are a fraction of a percent of the emissions. It is not worth trillions. Moreover, to mandate it quickly also trashes every gas car on the road. Which is far more wasted emissions than electric would save and for a long time. Not to mention efficiency ratings that right now aren't properly calculated since they don't include EV or battery production.

Is it better? For some things. EV is the future, but we need to adapt in an efficient way not force it all at once.

Making 20% more products in the US and needing fewer ships overseas would make a bigger impact on pollution than all cars being EV tomorrow. Why don't we hit it from every angle? Bring back manufacturing, make EV better, get nuclear power plants so we have lots of power, but allow gas and diesel to continue. People will shift as EV gets better.

Why do liberals always need to go ultra fascist on everything and mandate shit and force their ideas to be mandatory? Fuck off with that. If you want EV, then support funding research in the area so there's more public knowledge on the topic and more competition.

batteries become less and less efficient over time and also if they are not maintained or are subject to non ideal conditions, these are facts and it is you sir who is a nigger which is also a fact nigger

An EV charger doesn't consume more power than a kettle.
It's usually pulls around 8A (or 15A in countries where the government doesn't let you have 230V).

AC charging is basically trickle charging.
It takes hours but that's OK when you're sleeping and it's much better for the battery than fast charging.

Truckers drive all night, anon. You're talking about disrupting absolutely everything for absolutely no reason.

That's not true, gas has the highest energy per lb of anything realistic for vehicle power, you could make the argument for electric being better off grid, but then you have to contend with the fact that electric vehicle manufacturers make products that cannot easily be repaired or maintained off grid, while gasification exists as an offgrid method for maintaining ICE vehicles

An ice engine would run on vinegar and baking soda injection or stored co2 or anything that can move a piston you faggot, the heat is a byproduct of the most useful ways of making cylinder pressure.
You same fucking retards always leave out the automatic 20% loss of converting AC-DC to charge your fagmobiles.

so according to this thread we should all just walk while eating sugar because everything else is just inefficient use of energy

Who gives a shit nigger? why is this on Anon Babble? take his shit to Anon Babble you dumb nigger, no one cares about your cars

Not using gas is 100% energy loss.

Lol

Batteries suck.

?

You could have just said that in the first place.

Get off Anon Babble musk
go fix your shitty grok AI its starting to spew inaccurate leftoid crap

Have you seen the damage caused by the mining operations to get the lithium needed for the batteries? When you factor that into the equation, electric vehicles are far more harmful to the planet than a gas-powered vehicle ever could be.

Here's an idea. Do whatever you want, and leave me alone. Stop trying to legislate your opinions. This is why everyone hates you and your party has a 20 percent approval rating btw. Be better.

Unironically tho

So pay for one for me or shut your mouth, faggot.

Have you seen the damage caused by the mining operations to get the lithium needed for the batteries?

It's just salt.

Don't care, I'm not buying a pozzed electric car full of surveillance and remote switch off, enjoy having tesla engineers laughing at your naked wife and kids
reuters.com/technology/tesla-workers-shared-sensitive-images-recorded-by-customer-cars-2023-04-06/

they cut down the forest and don't even use the wood, they just pile it in a deforested corner and let it rot

evil

You just know a dozen or two of them fell off and got run over on the way

Electric vehicles haven't quite reached the streamline process yet. Give it another 15 years and they will be a viable option for most people.

An EV charger doesn't consume more power than a kettle

You don't boil a kettle for hours either. You're talking about charging a 100kWh battery here and that's a shitload of juice. The only way any of this makes sense is second cars, more nuke plants, and a significant grid upgrade, and the midwit fucktards are not talking about that, they just assume the power of magical thinking will make everything okay.

And Congolese child slaves

this i want my tango NOW, fuck teslas and SUVslop
good post

doesn't account for battery degradation

electric vehicles have worse performance in colder weather

takes hours to charge

needs software updates

optimized enough to make you spend more money

blackboxed to hell and back

the entire thing is designed around a vendor lock-in scheme (you can't take it to any repair shop)

is ultimately self defeating in trying to replace fossil fuels

Yeah, no.

passing the buck

Average coal power plant efficiency in the US is 33%. Or 67% of energy is lost.
energy.gov/fecm/transformative-power-systems
And OP did specify keeping every coal power plant exactly the same.

It was a good bait post.

stop asking why it's cheaper to buy the fuel and burn it locally than pay for electricity
that's awfully antisemetic of you

most of these are from automotive manufacturers being greedy fucks, not the technology itself.

Congolese child slaves in Peru?

cope

Who are you arguing with op? Any person with an IQ of atleast 100 will agree. Problem is. Big oil holds hands with big everything else, the NOSE. Knows. A man once invented a car that ran on water fresh or salt. Then he dissapeared, go figure.

Efficiency

Recharging more often degrades Electric car batteries much faster.

Batteries requires minerals that pollute the environment when extracting, refining and discarding.

Thus Electric cars are worse for environment.

Wind power plants blades (made of plastic, glass fiber & metal) kill birds, are noisy, & also degrade faster & pollute the environment.

Water power plants also destroy natural habitats thru flooding.

Ditching fossil fuels is only feasible when investing heavily in nuclear power.

Policy the West now is too afraid to do.
Since more nuclear power plants means more potential nuclear meltdown disasters/sabotage targets.

Like Fukushima, Chernobyl & 3 mile island.

China, Iran, Russia and North Korea by other hand have the brave balls to invest in Nuclear power.
With the main purpose of harvesting Plutonium byproduct for nuclear weapons.
So not pacific ends ofc :3

plus producing batteries is probably one of the dirtiest industrial processes

old shit becomes less efficient with use

no shit genius, do you think that a ICE has the same efficiency as it leaves the factory than after years of abuse, poor maintenance and rust?

Nah in DRC where they also mine stuff for lithium ion batteries. With literal slaves. Like ones who are born into servitude because their parents were debt slaves and they will never make enough money to pay off the rapidly accruing debt.

more efficient

burns coal for grid power

kek

Cold temperatures you retard, and good luck switching out all the electrical infrastructure. Gas aint going no where. Have fun replacing your battery every 5-10 yrs and its like $20k

what fraction of the electricity do you figure is produced from coal in NA?

This is just another wealth transfer to upper middle class democrats

Claim environmental crisis

Invent electric cars to address it

Make the entry level purchase 50+k

Oh but we have a tax rebate to bring it down to 40!

Still more than most Americans can afford

Tax the poor to pay the rebates

Reduce drilling to raise gas prices on those Chuds that won’t vote for us

Start “Cash for Clunkers” to annihilate the used car market for 15 years.

Hehe fuck you hicks

Trannify Elons son

He makes a truck and supports Trump

Reeeeeeeeeeeee Nazis! REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

Every EV ever made looks fucking gay too.

if a nuclear power plant that burns uranium 235 were the same thing as burning coal directly it would use up all of earths finite non-renewable uranium resources long ago

anon you have literally no idea what you're talking about. efficiencies are referenced in terms of "thermal efficiency" because it's easily measured via calorimetry. it's all about dimensional analysis -- but you have no idea what this even means, because you never took high school or college physics.
you also have no idea what you're talking about, to the extent that i have no idea what you're even trying to say.
????
ac/dc losses are <10% and decrease voltage increases (i^2r losses).
ICE is BY DEFINITION a COMBUSTION engine. so no, there could not be an ICE engine that uses "baking soda injection" or "co2 injection." you have no idea what thermal efficiency is. YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THERMAL EFFICIENCY IS.

not the technology itself

implying that e-shit hasn't been shilled for the sake of generating more profit

Electric vehicles require more optimization to make them workable in the first place. Making 80% of the car out of specialized parts that easily degrade with time and are impossible to find anywhere else is what makes them expensive in the long run. You can't mess with the main electric motor the same way how you can mess with a gas powered engine by swapping components. That's why they're cash funnel vectors. That of course isn't to say that gas vehicles can't be like this, but the e-shit is what makes it much easier to charge you more.

people with 100 IQ will agree

Yeah thats why no one likes you pretentious fagots, the 85 IQ Cletus and the 130 IQ Michael will still have vehicles when the government decides to turn your power off.

11% of fuel is lost

The electric isn't "original fuel"
You're loosing an additional 11% from turning the gasoline into electric first. You're retarded

then explain to me why we are attacking musks cars when they are the future?

You are hurting the transition to electric vehicles.

you have a petrol well and a refinery in your home? awesome.

The efficiency of a coal powerplant is apparently less than 50%, so if all everyone drives is a bunch of cars that charge up using power from those inefficient power plants, how is that better than burning has at 80% efficiency? I'm not saying electric cars aren't a better option - I just don't know... I'm saying the information you provided + a bit of googling is enough to dismiss you as a retard who doesn't know any more than I do.

petrol well

You can burn shit in your back yard and condense the fumes to make pyrolysis fuel to run your car. No oil wells needed.

you laugh but this probably is the most efficient form of human transportation known to man
not safe, but efficient

you can also burn shit and turn it into electricity to charge your EV. and as a bonus, it won't break your car motor afters two weeks.

40% of our output is nuclear or renewable. electricity is fungible if you get it from the grid.

I'm not going to argue against nukes, I want more nukes. but it is a simple fact of economics that if you can burn the fuel locally, then it is cheaper.
if you're going for nukes + evs then cool, if you're going for nukes + remote power plant (non nuke) then you're retarded. (you) as in anyone.

Nobody listens to you retards because you always balance your entire argument on dishonest infographics. Be honest if you want people to care.

What if we had... triangle wheels?
If you added a few more wheels, that way only one 'point' of the triangle is making contact with the road(without compromising stability)j, that would reduce energy loss due to friction, right? We've been using the same basic wheel design for thousands(?) of years now, maybe we should consider evolving past unga-bunga circle wheel.

depends on how the electricity is generated. if your electricity comes from burning fossil fuels anyway, then it's more efficient to just put it straight into the car than to deal with the losses of conversion and transmission

I'll buy an electric car when they can go 600 miles between charges and 80% of US electricity is from nuclear power plants.
Also I want the car to be no more than 3600lbs.

I'm not buying your EVs, Ford! Fuck off!

What if the EV charging stations are actually siphoning electricity that the car generates while driving?
I wouldn't be surprised, to be honest.

Lol. Peak clownworld. I don’t even have that much of a problem with new highways. I drive on highways myself, and this is probably a drop in the bucket compared to the entirety of the Amazon rainforest. But the way politicians piss in your face with this type of hypocrisy has gotten absurd. It’s so blatant and they’re not even trying to hide it anymore. The opposite actually. They are rubbing it in our faces and daring us to do something about it it seems. Let’s be real. The highlighted area is all slated for urboslopinization, at least. They don’t love the environment. They just hate us.

"Look how efficient my powerwheels is!"
...and then a chilly day attacked

404 Transmission losses not found

This is why I will never believe a word anyone tells me about Ev or climate change or any of the rest. They can quote numbers and studies and scientists all they fucking want, but I've been hearing it all for decades and for decades I been watching them do this exact same kind of shit. It's one of the most blatant and dishonest grifts in the world, and anyone who takes it seriously is a retard as a first principle

unfortunately true. the whole scene lacks standardization (by design), and imho the best (current) EV would be an EV conversion of a VW beetle. am hopeful that the slate truck will start changing things in the industry though.

16-20%, Canada and Mexico downplay it's use, but it's common away from major cities and on secondary grids.

EVs are way better just because they cut out a lot of suburban leeches. It does suck to waste time and battery life driving by miles and miles of gas stations, mechanics and oil change places, tho.

The best part of EV's is they don't need an expensive transmission like ICE cars.

That is the most effecient transportation system.
Prove me wrong, pro tip: you can't

none of that matters of we don't switch over to pure nuclear energy
and seeing how bad this country is doing in its eternal spiral to Brazilification? never happening bud

so, most electricity doesn't come from coal, only a small part. but even when it does and you use it to charge an EV, it is still more efficient than an ICE.

EVs still require oil and filter changes.
(Look it up.)

This is the type of stupid nigger thinking the EV industry exists on.

You're talking about cobalt.
EV's are already switching away from cobalt because it's expensive.

Also hilarious how Anon Babble suddenly cares so much about Africans....

ok, i will try your way of thinking. aksctually, using coal to power an EV is infinitely more efficient than ICEs, since they cannot run at all on coal.

Tesla Drive Unit Service...
youtube.com/watch?v=vPGascEXUac

Unlike gasoline cars, Tesla vehicles require no traditional oil changes, fuel system maintenance, spark plug replacements or emission checks. Even brake pad replacements are rare because regenerative braking returns energy to the battery, significantly reducing wear on the brakes.

decades

Almost a century now lol. Climate scientists have been caught red handed lying:
armstrongeconomics.com/uncategorized/scientists-caught-again-faking-global-warming-data/
Yet many still choose to believe them as a sort of religious conviction. Climate science is a special type of science where the experiments can’t be recreated in another lab. Their theses don’t come true but the science remains. The sun of course, is never a variable.

Don't care and no one asked

The problem is that in a gay ass democracy, as soon as 51% of people have electric cars they'll vote to ban everything else.

although that's true,it's coded by pajeets and is over reliant on wire and software
sorry not buying the jeetmobile lithium nuclear bomb

meanwhile my local mechanic is white and is continuing his family's profession,give him work and money instead

yes I just want to stress the grid even more so we have blackouts

You could have said that in the first place.

youtube.com/watch?v=vPGascEXUac

It will be funny how many Teslas meet an early demise because they didn't have their oil changed.

can't make liquid fuel out of coal

Try again nigger

This can easily be debunked by comparing cost per mile. If they were more efficient they would cost way less to operate, but the most EV's are more expensive per mile than the most efficient gas cars.

have to strip mine 500 acres of land for lithium to make a single car

YEAH, REAL GOOD FOR THE ENVIRONMENT, FELLAS.

??? Then they'd be putting what they'd stole back into the car in order to fill it up, unless you're claiming that the battery % is fraudulent

Did you know the procedure to produce one EV battery is the equivalent to around 5 years of use in an Average gas car? You need to shift through 20 tons of dirt just to get enough lithium for one battery. They usually need to be replaced every 8-10 years too.
Don't forget the fact that more energy needs to be sent to the wheels to move it because it weighs a lot more.
Oh yah, we need to repave all the roads more and replace a lot more tires because of that extra weight too.
Also an EV battery sure is shit isn't as efficient as your pic after 2 years of degradation.

I could go on and on, but there are a lot more factors to EVs actually being good for the environment than how efficient an electric motor is as putting energy on to the ground.

Hmm I wonder what all the mining equipment and manufacturing to make batteries uses

bitch your shitty explosion car would destroy itself even if you put a slightly different type of gasoline than it was designed for, stop daydreaming about something that would never happen

I'll tell you ev niggers what.

Someone makes an ev that

600 mile range

5 minute charge

pedal is rheostat attached to simple circuitry to the motor/battery

steering wheel is actually attached mechanically to the rack

normal hydrolic brake system

Other then that you can fuck off, you are riding around in an app/children's toy that the manufacture or government can disable whenever the fuck they want.

It's sad that pajeets can cut out americans so easily. It sucks that I can see that white americans are leeches or feds if I drive 10 feet in any direction, tho.

I don't have a gas car lol.
I have an alh that will run on just about any oil.
Bunch of fucking plebs itt

Why do you make regular trips that are 300+ miles? Even Americans on average don't make regular trips like that. You are just another contrarian faggot on this board and I'm starting to believing that a solid 70 percent of you on here just want the negative outcomes out of life so you can justify you shitty, perma-pessimistic outlooks on life.

People like you sicken me.

This graph doesn't mean what you think it means. The energy content of the gasoline was way higher than the battery in the first place. This is why the future is synth gas

Jesus your a low IQ nignog.

regularity is irrelevant. If you do that twice per years why would you buy a car that can't do that?

what are batteries?

They're already giving electric car drivers tax subsidies for their fake contribution to the environment. Literally tax cuts for the richtards who buy Teslas

Not saying you should; I'm saying that you're not the norm. For the average person, a 300 mile electric charge is sufficient for even a week's worth of transit for the average American.

This equipment could never be powered by literally anything other than fossil fuels! It's impossible

Slobbering moron

if we kept every single coal and fossil fuel burning power plant exactly the same

well, better we fucking not

say we had 100million of the average electric vehicles and we charge them every week
we'd need to burn 70lbs of coal per car, or 3.5million tons of coal, every week
the largest coal power plant in america burns ~18million tons/year, plant scherer, georgia
it's a big boy, the largest and most pollution-generating power plant in the country
the average coal power plant produces 830MW, plant scherer produces over 3500MW

anyway, you need 11 more of those fuckers, operating at peak capacity 24/7/365
those new plants, alone, would increase the total output of coal nationwide by ~15%
or ~5% of the total electricity produced in the united states

that's just 100million cars
accounting for 1/3rd of all currently registered cars, and less than half of licensed drivers

I wouldn't care leaf. I can walk within a 50 mile radius and run into dozens of fresh water lakes and dense forests. Don't need a vehicle. as long as I don't have to bug out. I'll be fine. If I do, ill steal a vehicle when needed.

For the average person, a 300 mile electric charge is sufficient for even a week's worth of transit for the average American.

ok but the average person takes road trips sometimes. Again why would you buy a car that can't do things you want

>This equipment could never be powered by literally anything other than fossil fuels! It's impossible

correct. Are you stupid enough to think you can power equipment in s min with lithium batteries?

meanwhile my local mechanic is white and is continuing his family's profession, give him work and money instead

”buy local”, support local economy

save the environment (LOOK AT THE DATA)

white power

What’s the downside? I think this is better than buying a Tesla. Sadly, most will opt out of spending $2000 to keep their car on the road for another 3+ years in favour of taking out a loan to pay car salesmen, financiers, and multinationals.

It's about reduction of environmental damage, retard. Not the complete removal of it. Obviously electric cars aren't completely foolproof and there are rare-Earth minerals required to build the batteries to power them.

Again, you are a bonified retard and I am tired of perma-contrarians like you.

31-35% Energy used by drivetrain, power brake cooling and steering, auxiliary energy use

Brakes somehow capture 22% of that 31-35% lost energy, leaving the initial 10% charging cost as the actual loss

This is what is called maliciously lying.
It is defying the logic of energy transfer - and there is no conceivable way you're using the brakes so often that it is able to transfer the energy back into the car.
If anything, you would theoretically lose more energy using the brakes than you would not.
Law of 10%, motherfucker.

How much is lost in just the charger voltage conversion alone? Those things get pretty hot, some have cooling fans.

It's about reduction of environmental damage, retard. Not the complete removal of it.

Then it's you who is the retard. Do you really think there are no sources of carbon that don't come from oil and coal? My goal is to completely eliminate fossil fuels so I am actually superior to you. What's the point of removing gasoline pollution if you cause diesel used by mining to sky rocket? How do you stop ship and plane pollution. There is actually a complete solution to this issue but you are too much of a clueless reddit midwit to ever find out about it.

Even Formula One cars use the excess, kinetic energy from the brakes along with thermal energy from the exhaust to power their hybrid engines. What are you talking about?

What makes you think the only source of environmental damage is from Carbon, you utter fucking retard? They use LITHIUM batteries. LITHIUM. AHAHAHAHAHA you are so fucking stupid it's unreal.

This retard thinks environmental damage = carbon

not taking into account wasted resources building the short lived disposable pieces of electric shit

When did thos board become reddit?

You realize we need to do SOMETHING with it, right? If you still want plastics & chemicals, we will need to pump oil. Gasoline & Diesel are, more or less, byproducts. They used to just dump them into rivers.

That's literally the entire point of shilling EVs. You're just saying shit you don't believe in

No, it's about climate harm reduction. Again, retarded. Again, this retard thinks environmental damage = carbon lmao

you don't need fossil fuel for plastics. You can use carbon capture, industrial waste, or grow algae. This can all be powered by nuclear

lol you believe anything. Is curbing carbon emission not reduction? Lol trolling jeet

it's all about dimensional analysis --

what an absolutely meaningless trusim. of course it is, no one said otherwise and it's not an argument or a defense for misapropriating the carnot theory

That's great for people that have a garage to put a charging station in but many of us live in apartments and there will never be convenient infrastructure for charging electric cars. If I could charge on my way to work or home and not have to spend 40 minutes doing it, I'd be much more receptive to owning an electric car. They're a good idea but not for everyone.

Yes? And this is against what I'm claiming, how?

trolling jeet

projecting, are we?

prove me wrong

Cool story bro. Your toy car is pretty fucking gay.

If you want to reduce environmental damage than you should be advocating for the removal of 2/3rds of the world population (or more).

you're the one shilling EVs. The point of that is because you think carbon emissions are bad. IIt seems like you don't know what your own argument is.

Subhuman activities

you can be arrested for posting this now

Better than sitting on a bathtub full of explosive gasoline

is this a new cope?

72% ((engine losses) (implying an electric vehicle doesn't have an engine)

5%

Am I at the holocaust museum? Because I keep seeing made up numbers without any backing evidence

40% energy from the original fuel is turned into electricity

5% of that energy is lost in transmission

5% of that energy is lost charging the batteries

13% is lost going to the wheels

100 * 0.4 * 0.95 * 0.95 * 0.87 = ~31% of the total energy going to the wheels. It's probably worse due to temperature changes as batteries perform poorly in cold and hot conditions. Also I assume I am ignorant and missing other causes for loss. However the more realistic number of 31% is dramatically closer to gasoline than the image is trying to state.

Electric cuck car powered by 20% efficient solar panels

Lose 5% to the grid

Lose 2-5% on charging

Lose another 10% because of the weather

Electric cars lost efficiency race before you even start charging.

Problem is we can't stop fuels going bad either. Petrol and diesel will oxidise.

EVs REDUCE carbon emissions, retard.

How much is lost during electricity generation as well.
A lot of it comes from natural gas.
And even renewables have a pretty high "carbon cost" especially when you consider associated infrastructure and long-term maintenance.

20% efficient solar panels

that doesn't matter because solar doesn't burn gas

lol @ this bot

Nobody cares even if you weren’t talking out of your arse, which you are.
I want a cyber truck but only as a supplemental vehicle/toy. So thanks I’m just going to go ahead and have both types, thank you for your concern. Which one do you least want to be run over with? Just asking no special reasons.

This post made me browser old american cars I could buy for the last hour.

Thermic sucks, proven again

ahhh, contrarian for the sake of it. It certainly describes most of this board at this point.

Bots is so prissy and high handed. The google one keeps getting mad at me. I tell it to fuck off a lot. Funny that, that programmed bots are so similar to wokeys.

your shitty explosion car would destroy itself

meanwhile there are 100 year old combustion engines running on the road while EVs are busy causing lithium fires across the west and southeast asia

I'm not poopooing electric vehicles, but this one-or-the-other nonsense is stupid.

Funny that, that programmed bots are so similar to wokeys.

who do you think made them?

Hey asshole, electric vehicles take the internal combustion and put it hundreds of miles away in a powerplant. What's the efficiency of power plants and what's the power loss per mile on electrical lines?

Electric vehicles are less efficient than than any modern day vehicles. They are less power efficient than if you had some old coal powered pre-model T

For whoever made this thread next time try to get your bot to not adopt a "everyone is stupid except me attitude

It requires fossil fuel to produce the solar panels.

Neither does nuclear. You 3.0 EROI loving indian

Why do you make regular trips that are 300+ miles?

Because I live in the Midwest. I live roughtly 150miles from St.Louis, Chicago, and Indianapolis and also frequently travel to Cincinnati and Milwaukee during the summer. I also make a few trips to Florida every winter as well. What the fuck do you mean why? Because I fucking feel like it. Unlike the average Zoomer that doesnt even have a drivers license and never leaves their mommy's basement I have shit that I like to go do. I dont have time or the inclination to stop every 2.5hrs to charge up 60% of the battery.

What the fuck are you talking about pessimism and negative outcomes? You fucking crybaby Communist, I dont give a fuck if people want to buy EVs more power to them; I am explaining to your dumb ass why the current iteration of the technology hasnt gone mainstream yet. It doesnt fit the use case of most people, and definitely not most families. One of my sisters that has 6 kids drives 35-40k miles per year, far more than I do. Im not being contrarian you dumb faggot, you are simply failing to understand how other people live differently than you do. The AVERAGE person drives 15k miles per year; I am generally around 25k and an EV doesnt work for me; trust me I looked into it and tried it out. Faggot.

That's not what the 20% means
What does any of that mean? I'm in favor of nuclear. You're just using number wrong and getting mad when you get called out

for the sake of it.

You being frustrated and crap doesn’t dictate my motivations, bellend.

For the sake of…

stating a fact - I would like to have both. I’m hardly going to spend 90 grand to flame the thread turd in a random turd thread. I’ve posted here about this several times linking Tesla and explaining my wish, the benefits and explained how having a cyber truck is most beneficial when having it as a supplemental vehicle. A nice rolling generator for linking all of my outdoor toys together. So you are too late with your assigned motivations based on your own woke frustrations at not being able to share your programmed cult with others.
Now. Say you’re sorry and we’ll let it go with a punch in the face. Simulate this by slamming your head face down on the nearest hard surface.

how dare you?!

The ramblings of a moron. My entire point wasn't about apparently, case-special faggots like you. It's about the average. The average person would be better fit for an EV vs a fossil fuel powered car. I'm saying this is someone that hates EVs/hybrids in racing, because I'm a huge racing fan. They sound ugly and don't fit in motorsport.

Again, contrarianism. I'd take a shit on your grave if I could.v2ngr

with a punch in the face

Your little threats are so cute. Better hope I don't report you to the Bobbies and have you arrested for "hate speech".

Fast charger ~50c for ~3 miles (1kw)

Gas ~50c for ~5 miles (30 mpg)

Electric cost of transportation higher

Gas cars only 20% efficient

4x room for improvement

Seems like gas could be 10x cheaper to operate

is there enough rare minerals for the whole planets battery needs? For how long?

The average person would be better fit for an EV vs a fossil fuel powered car

THEN WHY ARENT THE AVERAGE PEOPLE BUYING THEM YOU DUMB FAGGOT? Holy fuck, autistic retards like you fucking insufferable. If EVs were a good fit for the average person then they would be selling better than other cars. Use basic logic retard. Do you think people are purposefully not buying EVs out of spite, or because they dont know what works best for their own lives?

transmission

you pay 50c per kWh?