Why should the bourgeois own the means of production if they don't actually produce?

people just buy too much shit
everyones home has like 4 boxes on the door step at all times
i dont even know how it's possible to need so many things

During communism:

The means of production are in theory common, so owned by the state

In reality it's own by the party members

Only party members can become directors and managers

Party members decide who gets what job, who gets which apartment, car etc.

Of course party members get best houses, best cars, best jobs

Communism is basically a capitalism, only the higher class are people from the party.

They own it because they paid engineers and technicians to build and run machines. The rest of the society are all parasites by definition if they don't own and operate even simple machines.

*He* doesn't make 3000 of these an hour. He uses the materials, supply chain and means of production, owned and operated by someone else, to make 3000 of these an hour. For these to be worth what they are worth, they also have to be sold; sales contacts have to be established. If it's so easy to make 3000 of these things an hour, and sell them at profit, why doesn't he just start his own black-plastic-thing company? I think I know the answer to that question.

Makes 3000 parts per hour

Standing in a $10,000,000 building

In front of a $200,000 machine

With a $100,000 mold loaded in it

So he can load/unload said machine

He doesn't make those parts. He feeds the machine that makes those parts.

/thread

why cant he just buy the machines and tooling and r&d and build his own?
ezpz

Did he make the oil rig to extract the oil?

Is he involved with buying the machines, hiring and paying people to run the machines, buying and maintaining the building, securing and purchasing the materials and selling the product and making sure they aren't producing way more than they can sell etc.? Maybe he is getting paid too little for running the machine, but there is a lot more than just him stamping out one of those products.

Just have $10.300.000 goy, capitalism works!

Meanwhile people are left with $0 at the end of the month and can't even buy a house, let alone $10 dollar factory. Fuck off, retard.

$10 dollar

$10 million dollar*

Let me guess what will happen in this thread.
Anon Babbletards will come out and say that they agree with this commie horseshit but their natsoc ideology will solve the problem better than communism

What a sad state this shit low IQ board is in.

he makes 3000 of these using countless ideas/invesments/engineering,manpower etc etc

This.
He is only like 0.01% of the labor that goes into these things lol

he didn’t make it, he only utilized the tools and education provided for him by jew-owned monopolies and should be grateful to swim beneath the shark’s shadow instead of being allowed to compete!

Because commies misunderstand that risk is also labor. The worker exchanges labor for wealth. The capitalist wagers his wealth for more wealth by standing the possibility of losing it from failed venture which the worker does not. The worker can also leverage their wealth and share in profits too, it's called shareholding.

Except that the party is (more) meritocratic than capitalist oligarchy and inequality is vastly reduced

ITT: Communists are too stupid to understand planning and retarded gratification.
Owners of the means of production put a lot of work beforehand to be owners. Now they earn. Commie retards think they should earn at once right now.
Thos is also why all commies are fat faggots, because they cannot understand that going to gym is a process and not overnight success.
In the end all commies should be shot dead on sight to raise IQ of the humanity.

what are subsidies

Most companies are owned by corporations who can afford to lose it all and can also afford to undermine smaller businesses and force them out of said business.

If it's any consolation, the 'rich' that own factories like that don't really own anything either. They're basically the manager class who manage assets for the banks and private equity that give them loans.

Capitalists when they impoverish labourers and small business owners have less to sell so they need to destroy goods for their price to not fall

Subsidies aren't an argument against capitalism, it's an argument against government deliberately tampering with the free market.

This. And both created by jews

the problem is not how much you earn, but how much you can buy with it. Poland found out about it after the war, printing money (for state employees) is bad because prices are rising,
everything should have some balance and it does in some way

it's an argument against government deliberately tampering with the free market.

which has always been the case in a (((free market))).

Governments

You mean capitalists.

Why don't everyone join the party, then?

just pocket 3 of them, problem solved

what are those?

If he can make so many, why doesn't he make them himself? Oh, it takes a huge factory with a ton of capital outlay? Long supply chain with many other workers that have to be paid?
Fucking retarded.

Define bourgeois.

what are those?

cock rings

a communist basically wants to destroy the working class proletariat and make a bunch of people poor
no middle class and honestly in America we do not have that anymore

wow he pulled the raw materials out of the earth and produced 3000 of these thingy mcgigs in an hour with nothing but his bare hands?

Economic prosperity correlates with the level of freedom a market experiences, underlining government intervention and further government bribery by rich interests doesn't erase the efficiency of the market. Inefficiencies only arise through intervention, and the greatest inefficiency is the greatest intervention that being communism. Should sooner defang government completely than strengthen it and give even more power to be abused over you.

kek

He’s peasantcoping. Get back to making the boss rich you commie scum.

no that was the guy who paid his wages

oh wait he didn't do that either

fucking retard

no it doesn't you mentally retarded faggot, and there's no reason anyone should ever expect it to

take healthcare for instance: an insurance company makes money by not providing care, and it has a direct financial incentive to make sure you die when you become sick (they don't pay money for your care any more). this death is an obvious drain on the net productivity of the economy, and represents a common externality for the capitalist class which appears in some form across the whole economy. the goal that is optimized for is not even the universal profit of the economy, but the exclusive profit of the individual corporation (which leads to other obvious inefficiencies, like unshared research and development, among other redundancies).

you stupid faggots belong in a gulag breaking bricks because you're too retarded to do anything else.

Dear anon, while your example is a highly relevant one with the recent United Health fiasco, I regret to inform you that this is yet another case of a company with shitty service and leadership that has been propped up by undue government contracts and non-compete agreements between nations that sharply raise pharmaceutical prices beyond what they should be. In an actual free market, such unscrupulous business practices would be naturally out-competed by reputable insurance companies with more affordable care and the option to simply provide for yourself thanks to sharply declined prices. It is unfortunate, but every social ill inevitably is traced back to government involvement rather than genuine free market consequences.

Interesting take. Why doesn't the company fire him, since he doesn't do anything?

*He* doesn't make 3000 of these an hour. He uses the materials, supply chain and means of production, owned and operated by someone else, to make 3000 of these an hour.

That's just the definition of making something. If he didn't make them, the company would just hire him. The idea that you only really make something yourself is if you do it by hand using tools you personally constructed from raw materials is just nonsense.

refuse to buy his own tools

refuse to make his own company

refuse to buy his own resources

screech about pay and work

yep. its leftoid communism time

OP is coming back to e-argue in good faith with us, right?

Interesting take. Why doesn't the company fire him, since he doesn't do anything?

he operates the machines
how hard is it to understand that?
he isnt making the product, he operates the machines that make it
now answer me this
if according to you he can make 3 of that in a hour why doesnt he just go home create his own company and then make those himself? he could be earning so much more than working for someone else

Because fear. It's worked and still is. Your afraid too memeflag (it doesn't add to the post btw). Also will never respect anything associated with NKVD and their genocide. You can take back only through rebuilding the old way and starting at new communities

I don't believe in anything! I am very smart!

Translation: I support the status quo

This. Amazon has actual destruction quotas. youtube.com/watch?v=mxqz2g05MTI

"Supply and demand" etc. in the current economy are just buzzwords to hide theft and chicanery.

Did the shareholders? Did you think this was an argument? The toolmaker would also have been inadequately compensated.

You can take back only through rebuilding the old way and starting at new communities

meaningless drivel, utter reddit garbage, you believe in nothing and support the status quo.

Without the tools or materials he can't make any of them. Who paid for those?

if according to you he can make 3 of that in a hour why doesnt he just go home create his own company and then make those himself? he could be earning so much more than working for someone else

Because buying those machines most likely requires significant capital, and usually, the only way to get capital is to borrow it from a bank, who get a magic license to create it from nothing. This is the real issue; the bank can create for free but he has to work.

inb4 ok sure that's unfair but the business owner did that, why doesn't he do it too

Because usually banks will require significant collateral, which you usually only have if you're already wealthy (by definition). In other words, the rich stay rich and the poor can't do anything about it.

In the short term, a bank. In the long term, he's paying the bank by waging.

the injection mold base costs more than he will make in 10 years

If it was so easy he would have done it. But he doesn't have the capital to fund start up so he's stuck waging. Just how the world works.

It's more like the rich get rich then use their capital to secure generational wealth, while poors never do shit, stay poor, and stay waging.

Yes, this is what the guy in the pic is complaining about. You're just restating the problem.

the people who extracted the raw materials weren't adequately compensated either

The owner of the factory paid for them with loans from a bank, which he could only get be wise he had a lot of capital already, inherited or accumulated from prior labour exploitation. The loan was covered by the profit made by not paying him the value produced by his work.

You will defend this system because you are a parasite

It's more like the rich get rich then use their capital

Oh he just needs to get rich and use his capital. Why didn't they all think of that?? Oh right, because they're literally stuck in a treadmill system where all your time is eaten up just to survive.

If you instead have the state own the means of production, the state and its managers just serve as the bourgeoisie instead. And there’s been no anarchy-communist polity that has survived. So far, in an evolutionary competition sense, no one has yet defeated the logic of capital as described by Marx.

make 3000 of a thing an hour

only need 3

able to buy 3 in an hour

other people make 1000's of things

you only need 3 of them as well

you are able to buy those 3 things, for 1000s of different things, by making 3000 things an hour

what's the problem seems like an amazing system actually

Why didn't he just ask his dad for a small loan of a million dollars? Is he stupid?

Are those cock rings?

Indian cock rings to be precise

You've never read Marx, you're just desperate to defend the status quo and grasping for straws. I have read Capital front to back many times, you have not even glanced at the cover.

That's what's so hilarious about leftoids and communism to me. Even if I agreed with them on every single criticism of capitalism and the abuses of the corporate world, their solution is to... give them even more power by unifying them with the state?
lol
It's farcical

accumulated from prior labour exploitation

not a real thing, faggit.
You can sell your labor on the open market to the highest bidder.

you forgot to mention that the party isn't an exclusive club for millionaires, decent cope though

You need the machine that makes the machine that makes the machine that makes the machine etc.

At a certain point, though, low pay only gets you the niggeriest niggercattle labor, and I'm speaking as someone who worked at an injection molding plant doing QC for a year, and I spent all of my day running around trying to fix problems a bunch of fucking Mexicans caused. Besides working with young black men, women, and white liberals (women with a penis)? That was the job that made me unabashedly racist.

This might be the single most retarded argument ever put forward by a living human

Did he mine the materials to make them? Build the machines that mold them? Construct the factory they are in?

He is literally just a a minor part of the entire chain yet feels entitled to the full value of the production of materials

hurr durr only party members are le privileged

actually, anyone can join the party and millions in fact do

b-b-but communism is le bad!!!

Oh he just needs to get rich and use his capital. Why didn't they all think of that??

Do you think rich people were created in a big bang type event where they just magically appeared one day?
How would his dad have a million dollars to loan if he didn't do something to earn it?

his dad!!!

Ok where did his dad get the money? If poors spent half the effort they spend making excuses on generating wealth, a lot of you wouldn't be poor anymore.

It's truly crazy. Also, imagine identifying with an ideology that reduces you to a "worker".

Do you think rich people were created in a big bang type event where they just magically appeared one day?

At first, yes. Money is created by banks from nothing.

it doesn't surprise me that a Canadian has read Marx many times. God you people are fucking boring Jesus fucking christ you're dull. I'd say kill yourself but that would make you more interesting.

I make 3000 of them every hour

No he doesn't. The machine he operates makes 3000 of them per hour, but he could neither build the machine, nor run the maintenance on it, nor afford it.
Same as when the business teams tell me that I don't contribute much to the company, but then when I go on vacation for 3 weeks and the IT infrastructure just dies their productivity is clashed by orders of magnitude and they have to call me to beg me to fix it.

Rich people didn't exist before the 1970s? Come on bro.

So why doesn't he just build a factory and make them himself? What a loser.

That's surprising.
Either the guy making them gets paid an awful wage or they're very expensive for Indian cock rings!!

Communism operates as a mega corp. high ranking party members incur all the value of the equally poor working low ranking party members aka the 99%

youtube.com/watch?v=5BzgNBn786o

From the van der vaals to the ionic to the weak and strong to the everything.
That is why they build those things. Not just for the theory noone does that. It is for the cum.

the price on the counter is not equal to the cost of production

It looks like you've just started reading about economics, right? Otherwise, why are you surprised by such a trivial fact?

you need to read Marx to understand historical realities of command economics sucking ass

We know what happens when there is an attempt to apply theory to reality. They generally don’t meet. You reading Capital multiple times is essentially meaningless.

implying the lowly local party man has the same influence as the upper echelons

It’s an exclusive club for the people with the “correct” politics.

the predittor in the pic is complaining that because a bunch of little rings pop out of his machine he's somehow entitled to more money. literally the exact opposite of my point nigger

This is a good point..
His part of the manufacturing process is so insignificant. he's just the guy that presses a few buttons and probably bags or boxes them up.
The fact that this is his job in the chain of production should tell anyone he is retarded. To completely disregard a majority of the cost required to produce these cock rings and only consider his part of the job speaks to a certain level of heavy retardation.

Why the arbitrary date of of the 1970? I'm not interested in how the monetary system worked in 5000BC or 500BC or 200 years ago; I'm talking about today. And today, money is created by banks from nothing. You can bitch and moan and dissimulate but none of that changes the fact that banks make money out of nothing, while others like the guy in the pic are forced to work for it. And that that is a parasitic scam system and if you disagree you are wrong and either a parasite or a defender of parasites.

Still, you should read it more, given that communism is not on my backyard yet. And then more. And more. That's how you do things in this world, by reading useless shit over and over again.

He doesn't make them in the sense of shitting them out, he is just a meat robot attending the machine which presses the raw material (which he also does not shit out) into the required shape. He may also put it in a box afterwards. This point is dumb.

I've read only one book and one perspective multiple times cover to cover and I am convinced it is the only book that has the answers and only through reading my book will you also attain the answers

where have I heard this before

Oh they just pop out of the machine? By themselves? What does the company need him for?

Holy shit dude

Do the workers who made the molding machine make as much as that guy's boss?

You can try to talk about how what he does is "easy" "simple" and "unimportant", but you can't explain why the doesn't just fire him to save money.

You're talking to a wumao.

no clue, maybe he should get a job somewhere else if he doesn't like the compensation. at will employment and all

your only choice is to have your labour exploited by those who inherited capital

this is very good and based, I love accelerated income inequality and zero economic mobility

Retard

It doesn't surprise me that this throws you parasites into a rage and you have no argument against it

How would his dad have a million dollars to loan if he didn't do something to earn it?

From inheritance and exploitation. It's always the same thing, it's the only way to actually accumulate capital with a mode of production based on private property. Stop sucking billionaire cock you little cuckold they're not going to fuck you

absolute fucking retard thinks Capital is a book about communism

Every single fucking time LMAO
You are so predictable, basically little fucking drones

1970 is NOT an arbitrary date.
Are you aware of how stupid you seem?

Does time make them perfect, does that bend it. But there has to be a component that is out of time and i m rather out of shit.

seems like his job is miniscule in the grand scheme of things, so likely his position will be automated at some point. doubtful he'll see the writing on the wall given his victim mentality

Capital is a book about communism

Books are for idiots
Clearly

le Capital is about communism

Why do retards always think this? Every single one of you shit eating idiots always tries to make this point

National socialist doctrine is the acknowledgement that everyone should live in peaceful ethnostates with their own people, and not live in other people's countries.
And the economic policy side of it is to structure the economy in a way that disincentivizes parasitism like rentiering, and also shuts out foreign investors keeping all the prosperity inside the nations borders, no international jew stealing the profits that your people worked for.
Money will be printed debt-free interest-free by the State Bank, instead of the current central banking system where the money is created by "loaning" it from the jews, i.e. you are on the hook to jewish private bankers for the loan and its interest even though it came from thin air.

nationalists.org/pdf/hitler/manifesto-for-abolition-enslavement-interest-on-money-gottfried-feder.pdf

There is absolutely nothing wrong or immoral about people feeling more comfortable and inspired when being surrounded by people like themselves. In fact, it’s what is best for everyone intellectually, emotionally, physically and spiritually.
When communities are homogeneous, there is an instinctive obligation to look out for one another. Society goes from zero sum adversaries to cooperative big families.

People are happier; civic engagement explodes; prosperity is more evenly distributed and enjoyed and culture flourishes.
It’s all been definitively proven by all sociological studies and the entirety of human history.

Do the workers who made the molding machine make as much as that guy's boss?

Likely more. That guy’s boss is a middle manager supervising semi-skilled labor. The guys who make the machines are actual skilled labor.

I have never read Capital and will not consider it because liberals and billionaires told me not too

You are very smart!

Simply put, we need to get rid of all the useless eaters.
It's not only the niggers on social security on the bottom, but also the jewish (((investors))) on the top.

Once all the parasites are gone and the White ethnostate keeps all its productivity to itself, a new Golden Age of the White world will dawn.

That's right, I don't read any books unless Warren Buffet puts them on his approved list, buddy. So you get the fuck out of here with your revolutionary ideas, you hear? We like working for low pay from Mr.GoldBerg around here. We like being exploited.

The problem in our current system is that the capitalistic elements have been constrained by communist regulation to ensure that only a small handful of party members are allowed to operate freely. This mixed economy manages to incorporate the worst elements of both economic systems into a lumber abomination that crushes to death anyone who isn't riding it.

Did he create the oil so it could be extracted?

We like working for low pay from Mr.GoldBerg around here. We like being exploited

You say this sarcastically but it's what pol actually believes

we need MORE capitalism!

mutts deserve everything that is about to happen to them

I make

What, with your hands? From your own materials? On your own land? By your own design? And then you personally sell them to the buyer? And pay whoever ships them to the storefront? Oh, you operate a machine someone else paid for and designed, to produce an object someone else designed with materials someone else provided, which is done in a space provided by someone else, moved by someone else to a storefront where it can be purchased by people after being marketed and sold by someone else?

And you don't get 100% of the profit from every sale? How unjust! Faggot.

commie bragging about reading capital calls others predictable

misses the point this fucking hard

Hilarious. Still doesn’t change historical realities you refuse to acknowledge. Reading Capital again isn’t going to change those realities. I know Capital isn’t about communism. My point, because you can’t read apparently, is the retards who treat Capital as a quasi-religious tome have failed to implement their ideals to reality. Cope more.

mutts deserve everything that is about to happen to them

Looks like that stuffs already happening to you. I'll be sure to send flowers when your government mandated sheboon doctor pulls the plug on you fag boy.

Why doesn't the company fire him, since he doesn't do anything?

Because he does his job for the salary agreed upon when he was hired into this voluntary arrangement you dumb faggot. If he gets paid very little then he is easily replaceable or does not generate much value. If he is very difficult to replace and/or provides a very valuable service, his pay would reflect it. If it doesn't, he can threaten to leave.

Makes sense, but there are plenty of westerners dumb enough to fall for that shit too.

wat are those? wat are they made of?

no clue

Ok, so you admit you don't have an answer. That's progress. The answer is, they don't fire him because his work is actually valuable, necessary, and they're unable to automate it either technically or economically. His job is necessary and valuable now we're just quibbling about what that compensation should be.

Who's going to buy 3000 parts an hour when nobody has a job from automation?

"Useless" in your usage is just "valuable for the banks". The company doesn't eliminate his position precisely because they can't. If automation gets better, they will. Should we kill everyone who can be replaced by a machine? What's humanity's goal, one guy owning all the machines?

Gimme me a titty instead of a high 5.
I m gonna out schizo you.I wanna put the animals into the zoo..
I m also a farmer.

bank

bank

banks

Bingo, you're catching on. Your enemy is the fucking banks and the fucking kikes that own them and have been buying up every government on earth for the past 800 years to the point where they can just bomb any country that doesn't play ball. Capitalism vs communism is a spook you stupid nigger, there's not room for anyone but jews to be on top.

mutt who has never even heard the term "historical materialism" and does not know how to apply it talking about the material reality of history

Always good for a laugh

I know Capital isn’t about communism

You do now, after I told you.

quasi-religious

The only thing quasi-religious is your insistence hat rent-seeking is the guiding light of humanity and without shareholders parasitizing the wealth generated by labour we would be doomed as a species. Marx is not opinionated in his material analysis of capitalism, that's why you can't refute him

NO U

It's funny how the instinctive and kneejerk reaction of all Americans is to defend billionaires at any criticism, passionately and for free. It's almost as though you're a victim of lifelong propaganda, a mental slave.

Dang you did a lot of them before it was cool.

he doesnt make 'em. a machine does. he didnt do it by hand. buy the machine and pay the energy to make those 3000 yourself. sage in the options field, especially for retarded commies

Capitalism vs communism is a spook

Translation: I support the status quo, I support capitalism

fucking bitch, go start your own business. You're jealous because someone else put in the effort to establish their own company. You're lucky to be an employee. You are not entitled to anything someone else created.

Oh now we're going to wheel out the "voluntary agreement" straw man. The vast majority of people in his position would face homelessness and starvation if they don't have a job. He didn't pick that job because he "agreed" to it, he took it because the alternative was essentially destruction. In other words, coercion. A choice isn't voluntary when coercion is a factor. I'm not arguing for government to guarantee everybody food, housing, etc., I'm just pointing out that it wasn't a voluntary decision.

1970 is NOT an arbitrary date.

Ok, what's so special about 1970? Tell us anon.

This is the conundrum that marx was left with, and he came up with his theory of alienation.

He literally means the opposite of that, you leftist well poisoner.

Because they got rid of the nobility and monarchy.
Might make rights remember

They will in the very near future. First he will have to look after more than one machine and then he'll be made redundant. But then again, just because you hire someone who stand beside a machine for 8 hours a day doesn't mean he deserves all the credit. And yes, the definition of making something is exactly that. If he bought all the machines and raw materials himself and set it up in his garage, then yes. he made it. Otherwise no. He got paid to stand there. How is that hard to understand?

The status quo is fucking JUDAISM you retarded nigger leaf and I do NOT support it.

The vast majority of people in his position would face homelessness and starvation if they don't have a job.

Nobody eats for free nigger, you do not deserve to have someone else provide food and shelter for you unless you're a child and that someone else is your family. Someday I'm sure we'll reach a post-scarcity society. That's not the case today. You also ignored the rest of the post because you're a disingenuous faggot.

not voluntary

Sure it is, if you don't want to earn food and shelter you can voluntarily choose to fucking kill yourself.

you don't have an answer

don't need to, that's the beauty of the free market. don't like your job? don't understand why you're still employed? get another job. unlike communism or whatever the fuck you're proposing. show me anywhere in history where your ideology didn't lead to human suffering

Let's think. Why everyone think that the book you hear about only from commies, that is taken seriously only by commies, is a book about communism? A mystery!

Though I read it. It's a very boring and long babble about economy that it has no value for modern economics. Why should anyone read it if not to study the history of sectarianism?

One by one.

N-N-N-NO YOU!!

nice projection leafy, too bad you're the only one buying it.

m-muh historical materialism

It’s application resulted in the hilarious implosion of the USSR and China’s abandonment of Maoism in the 1970s. It is a good laugh.

after I told you

I’ve read Capital dumb dumb. You’re not special.

hehe u chuds haven’t read the holy books that I have read

but ur being quasi-religious

The only things I’ve insisted on is you being a flagrant retard and the attempts of applying Marxist theory to reality being historical failures.

nobody has refuted Marx!

Obviously you’ve never read Spengler.

Yeah ima just do nothing at work and get paid
Outside of violent revolution we are legitimately not going to take the means of production nor excess capital that literally subsidizes the admin white collar class
Wake me up when commie larpers get srs

doesn't factor in the cost of material, the cost of transportation, the cost of owning/renting the factory, the utilities, all the other people who work there, all the machines that operate in the factory to produce these, all the insurance policies they have, all the taxes they pay, all the benefits they have to provide to employees, then extra to actually turn a profit

This guy looks replaceable based on his looks.

It's funny to me that they're literally only capable of plucking one or two sentences out of context and attempting to bait you into arguing on their terms by being deliberately retarded.
Like, all I have to do is laugh and say "nah, you're just a faggot" and they have a schizophrenic meltdown

Basically, but it also highlights that the employee isn't producing all that wealth without the up-front investment made by the employer. That's why the value of his labor doesnt equate to the value of the products he produces. That's what the original argument was about even if the banks weren't kiked

that's why you can't refute him

Always laugh when I hear this. If Marxism was a science theory, that would destroy it completely, cause the theory that's impossible to refute cannot be considered a scientific one. Though Marxism is an apocalyptic cult, so it's okay.

He can just steal some and resell them.
Life becomes easier when you stop being a moralfag and learn how to game the system.

b-but I'm not a nigger!

yeah, yeah... go get swindled by jews then.

What's retarded is we get trapped in "OH SO YOU THINK HE SHOULD BE ABLE TO BUY 3000????????? ALL OF THE PROFIT GOES TO HIM? THAT CANT WORK"

No, I want him to go from being able to buy only 3 of those things, to being able to buy 30, and still produce 3000 a day. I don't want everyone making the same money, I don't want the janitor to make the same as the CEO, but the gap DOES NOT have to be this fucking massive.

Nobody eats for free nigger, you do not deserve to have someone else provide food and shelter for you unless you're a child and that someone else is your family.

But bankers and the corporate owner class are literally eating for free, and having food and shelter provided to them by others like the dude in the pic. What you're stating is objectively not true. You say "nobody eats for free" and there are innumerable examples of people doing that.

The rest of your comments are meaningless drivel because they're predicated on that false statement.

But bankers and the corporate owner class are literally eating for free

So you don't know even a little about the work of bankers SBD corporate owners, right?

I don't think anybody, including the dude in the pic is arguing that the company shouldn't be entitled to any money. He's just arguing that he should be getting more, which is reasonable.

It's the consumer plebs who can't stop spending money on useless shit. Communism still have a ruling elite oligarchy, Ther are still billionaire ceo in china and russia, why do you ignore this fact?

There is no work involved in creating risk-free money from nothing, which is how banks operate. Take a mortgage for example: either the borrower pays back the loan (printed from nothing) with interest, or he defaults and the bank gets the property. Heads I get interest tails I get a house. No work.

how much did the machine making them cost?
how much do the materials for it cost?
how much did it cost to set up a supply chain to sell them?

Yeah we as ordinary citizens (aka you are the fuicking plebs lol) should rather keep the companies best interest in mind esp. since there are no alternatives. Now as a side effect that would be ok but if you actively put those first i dunno what to tell you.

Moving the goalposts. The argument is that the dude in the picture is being paid too little. Whether he spends his pay wisely or foolishly doesn't change those numbers.

I also think that vitali, johonny somali and this other subhuman shouldnt get the same sentence as a murderer. I mean that would be rather logical wouldnt it.

For banks, nothing. For the borrower, the answer is the sum total of extra value he can strip from the guy in the pic.

its literally worse though
I don't expect an american to know, but my family is polish and I was told by my grandparents time and time again that it was all about connections, nothing else fucking mattered. If you were just a normal grey worker your life was fucking miserable

Then change jobs lmao, learn new skills to become a more valuable employee, no one is stopping this except his own fucking lazy attitude. He had plenty of time to figure this out but he decided to be a production line worker and then complain about it.

fucking bitch, go start your own business

Right, just ask the bank really super nicely and they won't make the loan contingent on your already existing capital assets, that's how it works.

You're jealous because someone else put in the effort to establish their own company.

Yep, all it takes is effort, no capital required. Just bootstraps your way into buying a factory and a million dollars worth of machinery

You are not entitled to anything someone else created.

Then the owner, who does no labour, should not extract profit from those who do.

No, if there is a status quo, and you say "I do not believe in this or the only other alternative", you are supporting the status quo.

da jooooz

You can remove any group of capitalists and other capitalists will instantly absorb their capital and resume their operations, now possessing a larger share of wealth and control. Countries with practically zero Jews have the exact same problems endemic capitalism. It is the mode of production itself, writ large that is the problem. It was an improvement over feudalism in the development of modes of production and is now obsolete, you are merely a reactionary mouthpiece

why do retards who have never read something and have only been programmed to seethe every time they hear about it not know what the book is actually about?

It's a mystery.

literally "no u" the post. Zero self awareness, you are not even a conscious being.

mutt continues to display he has no comprehension of the words he uses and refuses to blame capitalism for its problems

You've never had an original thought in your entire life and it shows

blah blah blah I cannot refute it

That's what I thought

risk-free money

Yeah, you know nothing. Tell me, bratan, why banks go bankrupt if they have no risks?

just straight up defending banks at this point

holy fuck lmao

I know a guy who didn't own a fucking thing. Won a contract with the district for maintaining logging roads, owned nothing. went to the bank, got a loan to buy machinery, now he owns half the town and employs tons of people. Don't be a fucking idiot.

So you don't know how science actually work? That's not surprising given that you're a sectarian.

By the way, do you believe in god? It will be strange if you don't cause its existence is unrefutable too.

But bankers and the corporate owner class are literally eating for free,

Yes and I hate those fucking kikes, as I said. Learn to read nigger.

And I know a guy who has born with three arms

Dumb even for a leaf.

da jooooz

You've outed yourself, a Gentile has literally never used that tactic. Filthy kike.

As we say in Russia, "мoлчи — зa yмнoгo coйдёшь" ("don't day a word and no one will know that you're a retard").

I cannot refute Marx because I am scientist, which is also why I believe in God

fucking lol

Machines cannot do things by themselves. He is building the product, the machine just makes him more productive.
If he goes away, the machine produces 0. Therefore, the machine is just a production enhancer, not the producer itself.

Because the tools to create them are controlled by privileged people with dad's money

No, I want him to go from being able to buy only 3 of those things, to being able to buy 30, and still produce 3000 a day. I don't want everyone making the same money, I don't want the janitor to make the same as the CEO, but the gap DOES NOT have to be this fucking massive.

Okay. Give me an accurate breakdown of how many people are involved in the actual production of 3000 of these. And I mean every single fucking step. From getting the raw materials to getting them into a state that can actually be used for production, then the fucking shipping from every step of processing these things and after we have the accurate cost on how much this piece of shit costs to produce we'll start calculating the same fucking prices for every machine involved in each step. It's not some magical minecraft shit where you punch a wall 100 times, get raw material and then *poof* you have 3000 rubber rings. There's hundreds of people involved in merely sourcing the fucking material and there are probably thousands of people involved in creating the circumstances that lead to this fucker having his job. Now let's try to distribute these fucking rings equally amongst everyone, I'm sure the subhuman third worlders that break their fucking backs to do heavy manual labor would fucking murder to be able to afford 3 of these an hour, instead they probably have to work 3 days to afford one.

So he's one part of the equation and his labor is not the sole source of production. If his labor is valuable, he'll be compensated well, or he can threaten to leave. If he's easily replaceable, he's not valuable.

muh Hitler cope

Is this the part where you clam the NSDAP was anticapitalist and I absolutely destroy you and you cope and seethe for the rest of the thread? The part where I eventually force you to pretend you believe Germany was better off in 1945 than 1933? We've been through this, many times, want some more humiliation?

I make

He means the machine someone else bought, right?

Actually, if we speak of science, there's even no need to refute Marx cause his theories must be proven first. Still it's funny that sectarian even doesn't understand the level of his retardance.

You're placing a moral weight to the gap but the reality is that the price of labor is best determined by the free market.

So why doesn't he quit and make 3000 of those things at home? Is he retarded?

Kino mahou shoujo Konata.

Can he produce them without the machine?

If he doesn't need the machine or any of the rest of the company infrastructure to produce little rubber gaskets himself, then why doesn't he open his own business?

I'm not a fucking capitalist you stupid well poisoning kike. Any number of systems can work perfectly for a group of people, the problem is you fucking kikes manipulating everything to your own benefit and everyone else's detriment. This is why the world supports palestine. No one gives a shit about muslims, we're just happy to have something to bludgeon your fucking terrorist state of israel with. You are a comically evil people.

communism still has billionaire ceo's who exploit the workers. Why won't communists acknowledge this?

belief in God and reproducible, observable material analysis are the same thing

I remember btfoing you before, have you learned the difference between idealism and materialism yet?

See

You are the means of production, so the decision is yours.

Just get rid of usury and taxes. I don’t care who owns what business.

And

u don’t have original thoughts because you don’t buy into my communist horseshit

Capitalism and communism both suck ass. You’re too fucking brainwashed to figure this out because you’re circle jerking over the musings of history’s greatest couch surfer. Not my fault you’re retarded.

He is the only creating value because again, without him there's 0 product. He is paid as little as possible because he doesn't control the means the produce his work.

If the workers owned the machines he would be paid at least a magnitude of order more.

a jew arguing in circles

Imagine my fucking shock. May you be raked into the oven soon, kikeleaf.

Are those some kind of anal ring you leftist like to buy?

I really do not like the status quo

"Do you want to change it?"

NO!

Intredasting

cOmMuNiSm bEnEfItS tHe wOrKeR.....

forbes.com/sites/ywang/2025/04/01/the-10-richest-chinese-billionaires-2025/

without him there's 0 product

Without him someone else would be hired. If he weren't easily replaceable, he could demand higher pay.

if the workers owned the machines

If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle. They didn't buy them. The business owner did.

never addressed the post

See and

reproducible, observable material analysis

You seem to have forgotten that we are talking about Marxism, the basic claims of which are not confirmed.

Huawei does that (it's worker owned 75%) and they're killing it.

With the surge of automaton, robotics and AI, a universal basic income is needed as more and more people get pushed out of the labor market, while rich people own the means of production

Is this the same guy? Just steal them ffs

True, capitalists will always just keep bringing in infinite immigrants to lower wages if nobody else wants to work for less. Seems to be a flawless solution really, I can see why you have no complaints.

Wow cool, the workers should go form a co-op then and pay themselves more.

I’m challenging the status quo by reading the same book multiple times

hoping my retarded ideology will stop being retarded

You’re a performative bullshit artist.

If the current producers could be the owners, then they wouldn't be the producers.

No, it was bought from China for a dime 20 years ago.

it was all about connections, nothing else fucking mattered

Just like in any western capitalist country?

Didn't address what, your false dichotomy between capitalism and communism? Neither is a philosophy I subscribe to. No economic system benefits the citizenry as long as you fucking kits sit on top of it bending it ever in your favor and to everyone else's ruin. There's a reason every group on earth that has ever interacted with you has fucking hated you filthy kikes.

You can only change the status quo by supporting kike economic gladiator B instead of kike economic gladiator A!

We can only change the status quo by shipping you babycock sucking desert niggers to fucking madagascar like Hitler wanted to.

What are they?

No, communism is stateless, so threre's will not be any parties you dumb fuck

If Marxism worked, why can't you do anything but bitch on the internet about it? I think we should expect more things from our government, and the money these companies make should be forced to be reinvested in our country. But the labor theory of value is the most retarded bullshit ever. Those anons poked holes all through your retarded argument. Your argument is a purely moralist one and it doesn't even make sense.

So how about simply, he makes 3000 and gets 3 of them every hour. So how many of them are you saying he's entitled to? All 3000?

Or the workers can organize, seize the means of production from the capitalist leeches and be paid the fair value of their work. That would be very based, jew.

the basic claims of which are not confirmed.

Being? I'll give you a minute to go back to your bookmarked r/libertarian thread where you copy your talking points from

I made an effort to actually learn how the material world around me works so as to better address all these non-arguments. This makes you angry and you'll do anything you can to shut it down. You are the only one defending the status quo.

what are operating and transportation costs?
what's a production LINE?
Anon Babble is NOT high IQ.

You can sell your labor on the open market to the highest bidder.

hires a bunch of H1B's

notin personnel saar

Well in practice they almost never do, they get bailed out. But even to get to that point, the answer is that their greed exceeds what they can make by lending printed money, and start issuing high risk securities, like in 08. Of course, that's a perfect example of them getting bailouts. Nobody at a bank went to jail or lost their job.

I DONT BELIEVE IN ANYTHING

I DO NOT WANT CHANGE

translation: I support the status quo

He is paid as little as possible because he doesn't control the means the produce his work.

Love this shit. The worker is also a salesman, he sells his ability to work. That's why this is not an a one-way process. If the factory cannot pay enough, the worker will leave for another factory, change his profession, or even move to another country. That's why the worker has its own power over the deal.

It's funny how commies always objectify workers while babbling about workers doing something on their own.

No, I want him to go from being able to buy only 3 of those things, to being able to buy 30, and still produce 3000 a day. I don't want everyone making the same money, I don't want the janitor to make the same as the CEO, but the gap DOES NOT have to be this fucking massive.

Why 30? How did you figure that number out? Is there some kind of LTV calculator I can punch all this into to find out what share of the profits he is entitled to?

Ah yes, (((Capitalists))) like the (((Capitalists))) who wrote Hart-Cellar. You fucking shapeshifting jews are the most disgusting creatures on earth. When you're running slave ships, you're (((White))). When you're importing the 3rd world, you're (((Capitalists))). When you're killing Christ, you're (((Romans))). When you're cutting bank taxes, you're (((Republicans))). When you're giving illegals credit cards and hotels, you're (((Democrats))). When you're slaughtering european russians you're (((communists))). The reason your fucking hats are so tiny is so you can hide them under other hats. Reprehensible people. No evil is so great that you don't deserve it inflicted on you 100 times for your crimes.

What, you don't like the free market? Are you some kind of racist? Maybe if you don't want immigrants taking your job you should've just worked harder and bought your own factory, chud

How much does the material and machinery to produce those things cost?

setting up a manufacturing line would be trivial

Rent a place. Insurance. Get financing. Hire people. Pass security inspections. Pay royalties. Buy machines. etc etc etc.

bank go bankrupt

either gets rescued by the state or it goes bankrupt for real

either way, the bank's higher ups run away with a multimillion dollar severance pay

If the current producers could be the owners, then they wouldn't be the producers.

Pretty well said. That's all communism has ever been anywhere. China, Vietnam, Russia, all they ever do is change the owners, and it's never the workers either that become the owners. If the workers became the owners, they'd just get new workers to do their jobs.

Then fucking do it, faggot. Oh, you just want the government to engage in all the violence for you so you don't have to get your hands dirty? I support any uprising against this kike worldwide economic slave plantation. But you're all fucking talk.
Lie all you fucking want kike. I've stated very clearly that I belive in breaking the fucking jew shackles you have on the world and letting people choose how to rule themselves afterwards.

Cognitive dissonance induced mental breakdown. I broke you.

There's nothing stopping him from buying the tools and materials himself, except the risk of wasting money. Mortgage his house if he has to.

The main problem today is that wages at the bottom have been suppressed while the earnings of those at the top has exploded, they should make it so that regular workers get a fixed percentage of the earnings of those at the top. But then if governments wanted to help those at the bottom they wouldn't be flooding countries with cheap workers while driving up living costs.

How many would he be able to make without the machinery he uses that he doesn't own?

And now you've run out of gas, Jew. I'm sure someone will provide you with some soon.

communism still has billionaire ceo's who exploit the workers. Why won't communists acknowledge this?

Real communism hasn't been tried yet. Real communism only exists in the hearts and minds of real communists. Any communist who has ever come to power was not a real communist.

Just like in any western capitalist country?

this alone tells me you have no idea how bad it actually was, you can not possibly compare modern day nepotism to the clusterfuck that was happening under communism
in a western capitalist country I can be a socially inept weirdo but if Im skilled in my field(coding) I can find a good job and be very well off
in a communist country it was straight up not possible, you had to have connections, you had to know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy that is friends with a director to get anywhere

just leave your country bro

Always pay attention to where the loyalties and priorities of these perverts who defend capitalism lie

Name me one Marxist claim that actually works.

their greed exceeds

Sorry, bro, but this is a random take that actually means nothing. What are you even trying to say? What's the metric to measure it?

Lol this is always the answer. Just mortgage your whole life to a BANK. Just borrow from a BANK. Just BANK bro. Why should he have to work or assume risk when the banks literally get to *print the money for free*??

If he really needs them I'm sure he could sneak a few out.

Criticising both capitalism and communism means you don't believe in anything

You have a negative IQ

It's a perfectly reasonable argument. The point is that there's a lot more to the process of manufacturing such things than the labour of one man. I'm not surprised that you missed the point. People who obsessively promote materialist bullshit are usually quite stupid.

You don't have to "defend capitalism" to know that Marxism is complete bullshit. It's been 150 years. Give it a fucking rest. That kike is long dead. None of his predictions every came true. Every communist project failed.

Sorry, bro, but this is a random take that actually means nothing. What are you even trying to say? What's the metric to measure it?

It's completely concrete. If the banks were content with the money they made by collecting interest from loans they can print (or collecting collateral if they default) then they can't fail. They fail (that is, get bailed out) because they aren't content with that and issue risky securities to try and get more.

just remortgage your house to start your own factory bro

just go to the bank and tell them you're quitting your job and you need money to start a business bro

just put up your home as collateral so you aren't being robbed at work bro

lmao

You're losing the point. Why they CAN go bankrupt if they're risk-free? If they can, you have to admit that they actually have risks and that, in turn, means that they actually at least do the work of risk management.

You don't have to "defend capitalism" to know that Marxism is complete bullshit.

Exactly. But Marxists always try to trap you in a false choice. It's their fundamental playbook.

The best system is capitalist ownership of the corporation by the workers; it promotes truly meritocratic structures as the wages and company rises and falls based on the quality of labor and what it produces. Competition and investment becomes more pure because there isn't a system of stock and ownership that promotes private equity firms and seeking short term gains for long term collapse at the expense of workers and consumers.

freedom of movement is evil, people should be chained to their country

Got you. And you didn't get my point that's about workers having power over employers cause they can simply refuse to sell their ability to work to them.

Go ahead and buy the means of production yourself, it's sold on the open market.

Oh, he "made" those? So, he mined the material, processed that material, drove it to everywhere it needed to be, and then did the final part he's actually talking about where he took the material and formed it into a part?

The man did but one small part of that big operation. He isn't "making 3000 an hour". He's discounting all of the other workers before him.

While I do believe fundamental tenets of communism like a total lack of class/any hierarchy are inherently unrealistic on any scale beyond a village, I'd be interested to see what they get up to without every communist movement being jews from the get-go trying to forcibly overtake a functioning Gentile society. The bolshevik revolution was just an excuse for kikes to see millions of Europeans murdered. Granted, Capitalism isn't faring much better in the modern days since banker kikes own it. There is NO freedom or economic self-determination while these fucking kikes reign.

All of his predictions became true though. The workers are poorer than ever, they cant buy a house anymore as the wealth gets more and more concetrated.

AI didnt exist at his time but he knew that at the peak of capitalism there would be complete automation and that will lead to the collapse of capitalism when people cant work and cant feed themselves

Vague and incoherent statement, try again

I support the status quo

Yes, I can see that

NO I DON'T

and yet you're defending it

Neither of you mutts know what Marxism is. Prove me wrong: define Marxism in your own words. No Google, no AI, I will know if you cheated.

The solution to the problems caused by capitalism is open borders

HA!
THERE IT IS!
EVERY SINGLE TIME!

what even is this?
licorice?

And why the bank should be content about the money it gets? Everyone wants more, that's completely normal. Or you'd skip an opportunity to get more possibilities if you have one?

They go bankrupt because the directors stole too many millions

Communists are all greedy and lazy.

I don't know if you even need to go full worker owned in every case; I think a huge step would be people getting paid based on profit percentage instead of flat wages. Profit doubles? Pay doubles automatically. Everyone has real skin in the game and an *automatic* benefit when they make the company more productive - no more "well maybe you can get a raise next year". Likewise, negative feedback is instant, automatic and real. More valuable employees can simply be paid a higher percentage than less valuable ones. Since profit would be effectively public knowledge (since anyone knowing their % share could compute it easily) there would be near total transparency as to the company's books, so no more lies like "oh it has been hard this year we can't afford a raise".

I'm not saying this is necessarily sufficient, but it would be huge improvement with no downside.

Exactly. But Marxists always try to trap you in a false choice. It's their fundamental playbook.

Their retardation is so deep. It's sad because I think a lot of them genuinely want to make their country better, it's the ultimate mind poison. There is so much wrong with them. They worship Marx as a prophet and they say that the reason every communist movement everywhere failed is because they failed to follow Marx's plan, but he had no fucking coherent plan. All he did was get drunk and rant all day in writing. He was terminally online before there was an online. So no coherent plan, he says a lot of contradictory bullshit on top of it. No one can actually form a coherent understanding of Marx, because he had no coherent viewpoint, so they spend all day pulling contradictory quotes from him to try and one up each other. Literally just recreated Judaism.

And why the bank should be content about the money it gets? Everyone wants more, that's completely normal. Or you'd skip an opportunity to get more possibilities if you have one?

Ok, so you agree with the dude in the picture then? Isn't it natural

I'm against open borders!

So you support repatriating every fucking jeet, jew, chink, and all varieties of other non-Euro diaspora from Canada?

Vague and incoherent statement

It's not a statement, lmao, it's a question. So you don't know a Marxist claim that actually works? Then there's nothing to talk about.

problems caused by capitalism

There's no capitalism. Spare us from your imaginary entities. It's just economy that exists.

He was terminally online before there was an online.

Kek I'll remember that one.

three of these

What ARE those?

Well then if that's true, we're just waiting for the rate of profit to hit 0 and then communism will spontaneously happen. That means that every communist from his prediction until that eventually happens has been wasting their time doing absolutely nothing because it all depends on complete automation.

distribution

This is the real problem. Anybody could tool up, but then there's the on market penetration and distribution. China has their Temu/taobao/Alibaba, which is good for small Chinese manufacturers, but along with dumb Western industry practices and kiked systems, it makes it extremely difficult for small independent American manufacturing to exist.

That's because "marxism" gets broadly defined in many ways and one is just "critique of capitalism". It's like how South Park isn't a marxist show, but the Walmart episode promotes what could be called marxist violence even though violently tearing down a billion dollar company that dares set up shop in your small mountain town can be seen as territorial, the policy it promotes to avoid the violence that marx says is inevitable requires government intervention to keep Walmart out or just too weak to ever have that power. Any small business capitalist can say "Walmart is bad" without becoming a marxist, but the means to act on that, the conversation expanded from that, leans marxist the same way supporting a strong and efficient police force can lean fascist. At a certain point arguing these semantics doesn't matter to the utility.

Did he ensure the profitability of the venture?
Did he secure the necessary raw material for production?
Did he refine said raw material to a malleable state to produce the item?
Did he perform the necessary controls to ensure that the material is of sufficient quality?
Did he transport the material?
Does he transport the finished product?
Did he make requests to the institutions necessary to receive proof that the good conforms to legal requirements for quality and safety, allowing it to be sold?
Did he secure a venue for sale?

Neither of you mutts know what Marxism is. Prove me wrong: define Marxism in your own words. No Google, no AI, I will know if you cheated.

YOU don't know what Marxism is, because there is no Marxism. Marx himself decried the term. If you want to invent one, it's impossible, because he had no coherent view. That's why every communist movement has to create a new hyphen. Marxism-Lenism, Marxism-Leninism-Maoism, and etc.

What are they even

Can you prove this?

Of course. Why should I not? This guy wants more for himself. His employer wants more for himself. It's just your everyday process of making deals, each side seeks more profits for itself.

I buy our products much cheaper and sell them more expensive by about 10%, if they have defects and I know about each one, then I gain 15-20%

people getting paid based on profit percentage

Will these people be forced to kick in out of pocket if the business takes a loss or do they only get the profit without any risk or sacrifice?
What kind of business do you own and how do you share your profits and losses among your employees?

I need other people to do my work for me so I can sit around and get fat on their labour

when they complain that I am a rent-seeking parasite I call them greedy and lazy

Did you think this was a gotcha? You support capitalism, YOU are the pro- labour immigrationist

Marxist claim that works

Is not a coherent statement. The entire framework of dialectical and historical materialism works. If you want a single example of something Marx figured out that non-Marxists could not: the falling rate of profit. Now you will move the goalposts and say "what? Only one thing?" When it was your number in the first place

capitalism does not exist

Peak retard shit

screams about Marxism all day

"Define Marxism"

IT DOESNT EXIST

lmao that's what I thought. Fucking retard

refuses to support the removal of browns and chinks

(((Capitalist))) kikes support open borders for """THE GDP""" and (((Communist))) kikes support open borders for """social justice""". The only reason you fucking kikes want to import browns (and you ALL do) is to displace the Nations of Europeans because the last time you tried this Weimar fucking bullshit Germany was still German enough to rise up against you. Despicable kike.

it just works

Lol, even lmao.

the falling rate of profit

You don't know about Kaldor's facts, right?

Exactly. You can't define it. Well I'll give you a definition, Marxism is when you worship Marx, and the more you pay homage to Marx, the more Marxist it is. It's a personality to a random dead irrelevant kike.

Will these people be forced to kick in out of pocket if the business takes a loss or do they only get the profit without any risk or sacrifice?

Yes. They are taking risks and making sacrifices. They're sacrificing their time (and sometimes, unfortunately, their bodies) to work at the company. They're paying the opportunity costs they're missing to work that job. Often, they're investing time and effort to hone a skill at that company that may not be transferable elsewhere - essentially betting on the company's success. If they're being paid in stock or options, that compensation indeed represents a "kick in out of pocket" if the company starts to go down.

What kind of business do you own and how do you share your profits and losses among your employees?

Ad hom ignored. Arguments either stand or they do not.

That's what actually Marx said, capitalism is a self destructive system that will eventually lead to socialism. Now, the communist wont just sit idle waiting for it so they try to fight for worker rights and so on.

China is now the main follower of Marx, they are going turbo capitalism to then seize the revolution when full automation hits, and they are being extremely effective

They really should start teaching about oversupply crisis in schools. There's no focused easy to understand book about it though, probably for national security reasons. Maybe I should write it.

Of course. Why should I not?

Fair. The issue is that he's working honestly while banks are stealing (from him).

just straight up hallucinating and spamming word salads at this point

Nothing breaks the American mind faster than the realization that he only exists to defend billionaires

So you have no argument at all, just as we've already proven.

MARXISM MARXISM MARXISM MARXISM MARXISM MARXISM MARXISM!!!!!!1111

"hey mutt, what does Marxism mean?"

MARXISM DOESNT EXIST

fucking lol
clown country

It's a personality to a random dead irrelevant kike.

*personality cult dedicated to a*

Now, the communist wont just sit idle waiting for it so they try to fight for worker rights and so on.

So then the rest of this bullshit has nothing to with anything in our current time?

China is now the main follower of Marx, they are going turbo capitalism to then seize the revolution when full automation hits, and they are being extremely effective

I guess I'll just have to wait for that to happen. Hopefully it doesn't take too many more centuries.

I'm not the one 'NO YOUing', YOU ARE!!!

lol, lmao even

y-you're crazy goy

Mass immigration is a jew plot to displace Europeans. Whether it be capitalist jews telling us to look at line go up or leftist jews telling us to repent for the sins of colonialism. That's why you won't advocate for the repatriation of browns and chinks from canada. You don't want it to be Canadian. You pay lip-service to closing borders. You're a smelly disgusting kike.

It's insane how poorly understood it is. When you're setting on an overabundance of practically everything (except money), supply/demand/"market forces" are just chicanery.

I'm asking you what Marxism means jeet. I didn't make the fucking thread. Why can't you sell anyone on Marxism? How are you here shilling it yet you can't define it?

Don't be retarded. Amazon sells billions of items. Perishable items expire, and stuff that nobody wants to buy eventually isn't worth keeping in stock. There are all sorts of shitty things corpos do, Amazon destroying useless stock isn't one of them. Their existence at all, I admit, is shitty and based off filling peoples homes with plastic Chinese trash.

Should we kill everyone who can be replaced by a machine?

How many jabs did you take? You're debating it while some one out there is actually doing it, your feelings on the matter are irrelevant.

They don't fire him because he's slightly cheaper than investing in automation. Why his labor is worth so little is because anyone, literally anyone can replace him.

Technology is the problem, it increases efficiency so much that one man can do the labor of thousands with each major advance thereby making man redundant. There's nothing you can do about it short of destroying civilization, killing the learned and burning all knowledge.

I don't. Because its all Chinese shit. There is 0 point in buying ANY of it.

actually comprehends Marx

actually realizes that China is indeed doing Marxism

Too based for Anon Babble
How many times have you heard these retards say "China is NatSoc/fascist"? 900? 1000?

NO U "NO U"!!!

Mind broken mutt

Mass immigration is a CAPITALIST plot to lower wages and divide the working class.

I told you to define the word you were using. You cannot. We've proven that you don't understand what you're talking about and you're just reacting to defend billionaires as every American is trained to from birth

Lol you didn't watch the video, or you're a lying little shit. Amazon was destroying brand new Apple laptops, PPE gear, power tools, etc. in that video. Nothing perishable was even mentioned.

You're debating it while some one out there is actually doing it, your feelings on the matter are irrelevant.

This, everyone falls for the puppet theatre put on by the kikes and ignore these jews are injecting their countries with god knows who and their bodies with god knows what. No problem will be solved until the kike problem is solved.

Communism is post-capitalist cope for loss of monarchy. In any closed economic system, wealth will inevitably accumulate to dominant entities. It's stupid not to see this. In capitalism, there is hard stop to this accumulation, and no thought/concern about the people "left out". Communism tries to fix it by throwing money back out at the poor, but it creates an even worse concentration of power/wealth in the State.

Under monarchy, land is distributed to aristocrats determined ultimately by the king. There are stops to wealth accumulation here because the king and other families do not want any others usurping the throne. And here the commoners are considered, the nobility having a moral duty to care for the commoners under them. I'm talking about conditions of an ideal monarchy here, not the kike nightmare version Hollywood likes to lie to people about.

I already defined. It's an apocalyptic cult that disguises itself as economic teaching.

capitalism is a self destructive system that will eventually lead to socialism

He said it a century and a half ago. Since then, not a single developed state has become socialist, only some of the developing ones have become, and then dropped it, and all we have now is a handful of extremely poor militarist dictatorships.

The question is, how many more centuries must it take for commies to realize that their bullshit just doesn't work?

What about Kaldor's facts?

Mass immigration is a CAPITALIST plot to lower wages and divide the working class.

Mass immigration is a JEWISH plot to wipe out nations and turn the world into economic zones. That's why you don't want to get rid of the browns and chinks in canada.

I told you to define the word you were using. You cannot. We've proven that you don't understand what you're talking about and you're just reacting to defend billionaires as every American is trained to from birth

I'm asking you to define the word you're using. Why can't you do it? You're the expert.

Oversupply crisis. Explain please.

You don't know what communism means. You could fix this by reading but you're too lazy and stupid

while banks are stealing

They're not. How do they steal from him?

He's a fucking jew. He only argues in circles and poison drips from his filthy jew mouth. Know their tactics. Argue with them only for the sake of who may be watching. You will NEVER get them to admit anything, but others may catch on to how disgusting their methods are.

He hand-made 3000 of those in an hour?

Commies come and bitch and whine at everyone. Can't even define what Marxism is. And they do this because they actually think they're proselytizing and converting anyone. Any religious schizo could do a better job than this. This is why Marxists have less followers than any religion anywhere.

NO YYYYOOOOOUUUUU

Lie to me, but don't lie to yourself

I don't watch jootube. You've been deceived if you think any of that was salable. Laptops, pep gear, and power tools can all be damaged or become obsolete. They aren't going to destroy goods to manipulate the market when they can just do that directly, retard,

Funnily enough we only have examples of it going the other way, the opposite of what Marx predicted, I.e. socialist and communist societies becoming capitalist. We’ve yet to see it the way marx predicted and I doubt the chinks will manage it. Do you REALLY think the CCP will let their power “wither away”?

So you've never worked a day in your worthless life but you're owed something for nothing.
Want a share in profits, get a fucking job and buy stock or start your own company risking your own investment.
Or I guess keep e-crying on social media and I'm sure you'll wind up on top some day.

And today, money is created by banks from nothing

Yeah, that started in 1971

Don't be offended so much, it's just that no one believes in uncle Marx' fairy tales you're screeching about.

become socialist

Building socialism is a PROCESS and there have been hundreds of projects. There is no socialism button, only liberals believe this.

muh Kaldor

Le Kaldor is unfalsifiable. Now what?

Why didn't Warsaw Pact and USSR communist countries with lots of Jews have mass immigration despite having better living standards than the entire third world? Why is this only a CAPITALIST problem?

Keep defending that status quo mutts, you are le real rebels

I think the problems people have with "capitalism" are really just problems with Jewish Capitalism. Which jews then claim to solve through communism which then creates an invisible/intangible Jewish "king" known as the State.

That's cool read:

Exactly. Capitalism still needs guidance, as in, stop super rich becoming more powerful than elected politicians and buying up everything. The super rich have basically broken the game we’re all playing

US dollar was backed by gold until 1971
Look up the Bretton Woods System

I know, that's why I'm not wasting time with fancy arguments. I'm just going to keep pointing out that he claims to be here to argue on behalf of Marxism, yet he can't or won't define it.

I know his game. I have already demonstrated I have a clear understanding of what is meant by Marxism. Marxism is just what Marx wrote, there can't be any clearer definition than that. I already explained that what he wrote is endless rambling and contradictory incoherent diatribes. I explained that there has never been a "Marxist" movement because he had no plan and what he wrote is self-contradictory and incoherent, so they always need another person to add his name and his plan to it (Marxism-Leninism, Marxism-Leninism-Maoism.)

But of course all of those guys are in the same boat as well. No coherent plan or strategy, so then another person has to come along and had his name to the chain of hyphens.

Same question would be applied to the people who make the molding machines. And I bet the cost of their labor vs how much the machines sell for would still be extremely lop-sided.

I know, that's why I'm not wasting time with fancy arguments. I'm just going to keep pointing out that he claims to be here to argue on behalf of Marxism, yet he can't or won't define it.

I know his game. I have already demonstrated I have a clear understanding of what is meant by Marxism. Marxism is just what Marx wrote, there can't be any clearer definition than that. I already explained that what he wrote is endless rambling and contradictory incoherent diatribes. I explained that there has never been a "Marxist" movement because he had no plan and what he wrote is self-contradictory and incoherent, so they always need another person to add his name and his plan to it (Marxism-Leninism, Marxism-Leninism-Maoism.)

But of course all of those guys are in the same boat as well. No coherent plan or strategy, so then another person has to come along and had his name to the chain of hyphens.

Typing all this because you couldn't define Marxism, the word you yourself used

fucking lmao

NOOOO YOOOOUUUUUU!!!!!!

This is a major issue so if this thread dies before we can discuss it thoroughly I'll make a new one on this topic anon. Essentially, physical productivity has increased to the point where scarcity isn't an issue. This doesn't mean we have Star Trek magic replicators of course, it just means that we can exceed the demand for a particular good, and usually by a huge margin. Now, because of they way money is created (banks make it from nothing - read Werner's paper on how banks create money out of nothing sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1057521914001070 and the works of C.H. Douglas) this basically means that the world collectively cannot afford to actually buy everything that we produce. The results:
Companies destroy brand new merchandise in order to artificially keep prices high
Perpetual money shortages/boom bust cycles
Constant money devaluation/inflation
Waste of physical resources and the time/effort to produce them
Constantly insufficient wages (as in OP's pic)

We are starting to see it as technology is advancing fast, specially in the US that is the most advanced capitalist economy, their youngest generations are fucked

The CCP wont lose power by this they will control the industry themselves that why I say they want to seize the revolution they will just tell the capitalist chinese class like that Jack Ma to fuck off

Building socialism is a PROCESS

I like how you find fault with the lax use of terms, even though you can't define Marxism yourself.

Le Kaldor is unfalsifiable

So you don't know the difference between a theory and a fact, lmao. Which circus did you receive your education at, bratan?

YOUR IQ IS ONLY TWO DIGITS
QUIT YOUR FUCKING JOB IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT
FUCKING DEMENTED MORON
SHUT THE FUCK UP AND KILL YOURSELF

Did the company owner? Did the banks who financed him?

I just defined it faggot. It's a trick question. The answer is there is no fucking definition of Marxism. Who made the definition? Not Marx.

In the late 19th early 20th century production in factories rose so high that supplies of goods exceeded demand. By this point the system of debt expansion of production, wherein businessmen would take out loans to build factories to make goods to sell to pay back the loans, was well established and had formed the basis of the "business cycle" (boom and bust as it was called at the time).

The problem was that if you made a factory to produce refrigerators, you could expand production to such high numbers that everyone who could afford a refrigerator could have one. So businessmen, not being able to tell how big the market for their products actually was, expanded to infinity (infinite money glitch amiright?). The problem was, once every family had a refrigerator, they didn't need any more. So the market was saturated and now businessmen had large factories and inventory they couldn't sell even at a loss, and they went bankrupt. The banks then took the loss on the loans.

The problem was never really solved. Symptoms were alleviated by the expansion of credit (to make sure consumers could buy things if they wanted, even if they lacked money) and advertising (to ensure that consumers would want to buy things even if they didn't need them). Government regulation of small businesses ensures that new entrants don't enter markets and oversupply, and oligopolies have formed and use monopolistic pressures that are actually illegal to manage supply between themselves with the government's tacit endorsement. Hence why Tesla is the first new car company in like nearly a century and all the old ones merged.

OP's retard can produce a thousand plastic widgets an hour. If he were allowed to, he would bankrupt his factory producing them endlessly and then selling them at below cost. This applies to EVERYTHING. Our system of interest-bearing debt is ill-suited to a world of abundance.

Because the USSR was a shithole that had to build walls to keep people IN. They were founded on the relatively recent slaughter of anyone who did not support their ideology and they collapsed in a matter of decades. It didn't matter if they had better living standards than the third world, the first world still far out-classed them in that regard. Africa was still closer to "Capitalist" europe than to the USSR. Latin and central America was still closer to the US than the USSR. You're still a fucking JEW.
Yes, this is what I've been saying. We don't have any economic options not poisoned by these disgusting kikes. Until they're dealt with no other problem will be addressed.

If they retain power the. They’re not reaching the end game marx fantasised about

Kek I know the answer wanted him to admit it (he refused) because my entire argument was that the dude in OP's pic was ultimately just the bagholder in the money printing scam.

The (((super rich)))

Just say it.

Good post and sources. Personally I learned about it from Quigley's Tragedy & Hope and some other general research.

still can't define Marxism

That's what I thought

So you don't know the difference between a theory and a fact, lmao.

Marx stated many facts, you claimed these were unfalsifiable. Regardless Kaldor's facts do not refute the falling rate of profit, are you having trouble keeping up?

Why should the bourgeois own the means of production if they don't actually produce?

if the jews were destroyed this would not be nearly as bad.
only the jew sleeps well at night knowing they do nothing of value but live like kings

Why should the bourgeois own the means of production if they don't actually produce?

Why are there so many 1pbtid threads baked by CCP

their youngest generations are fucked

What do you mean by this?

THAT'S MARXISM!

"what's Marxism?"

IT DOESNT EXIST!

lolling right now

Why can't you define Marxism?

Why are there so many 1pbtid threads baked by CCP

Who cares, there are real obsessed Marxist faggots ITT.

CIA and State Department slopaganda guzzling liberal mouthpiece drone

The universal American experience

Why can't you define what Marxism is? Maybe this is why none of us can define it, because you're the Marxist, and you can't even define it.

It's almost like mass immigration is a Communist plot to make the proletariat's working conditions as miserable and unrewarding as possible so that they'll eventually overthrow the bourgeoisie. Maybe that's why they're so against Trump restructuring trade, controlling immigration and bringing jobs back to America.

See

Could the reason the leaf can't define Marxism, is because there is no definition? That seems like the most logical conclusion to infer from his spamming.

Holy shit the mental gymnastics lmao
COPE

Marx stated many facts

The falling rate of profit isn't a fact. It's a theory. You really don't know the difference, lmao.

Kaldor's facts do not refute the falling rate of profit

They directly refute it, it's just they use slightly different terms.

Based. I recommend picrelated as well. Not very well known. David Graeber's Bullshit Jobs is an excellent look into the results of post-scarcity-with-money-shortage on the labor side.

See

Why can't you define it?

Btw how many people do you think you have convinced of the immortal science of Marxism here today? What is your purpose for sperging like this?

but I also saw this
What are you implying with this wall of green text. A definition of Marxism?

Why can't you define it?

Pretty sure you could fit a machine to make small plastic things in your garage.

Actually, he's too much of a dork to realise that he's only showing Marxists as hysterical uneducated little girls here.

You just don't want to admit that it has no core principles and exists only to tear down european nations. If I'm wrong feel free to tell me what it really is. Define.

I didn't say the falling rate was a theory, you asked for a theory that "works". You are doing exactly what I said you would, deflecting because you lost.

They directly refute it, it's just they use slightly different terms.

How so?

See

THATS MARXISM!!!!

"what's that?"

IT DOESNT EXIST

it has no core principles

Dialectical and historical materialism for one

can't dispute the argument

can shame the arguer

The universal kike experience.

You didn't make an argument, you just regurgitated your NPC programming

Nationalism, being the modern day extension of Tribalism, with the Nation as the ultimate expression of the Familial bonds that keep a people tied together in unity and love, is the only way through which one can organize a society that will allow people to put people, as their kinsmen, over profits.
Neither Capitalism, nor Communism, being the two sides of the same rootless, individualistic, secular jewish shekel of Liberalism, can achieve a state in which people do not selfishly seek to hoard wealth or power within society, at the cost of their neighbor.
We either re-emphasize National Ethnic identities, or we perish. Those are our options.

It's jews. They're a VERY feminine group. It's why they trace judaism matrillineally. Imagine being part of a group so pathetic that you had to define your women being raped by outsiders as a victory.

h-heh goyim, you're just making more of us!

They’re disproportionately involved but you can’t put all the blame on jews

You gonna do it? Is that the entire definition of Marxism?

It's not an argument if I don't feel like disproving it.

Kike programmer lambasting NPC programming. El Clasico.

Hes running the clock till page 11 bro

Ok here you go. Marxism is communism. And communism is:

“Communism is for us not a state of affairs which is to be established, an ideal to which reality [will] have to adjust itself. We call communism the real movement which abolishes the present state of things. The conditions of this movement result from the premises now in existence.”

Now that you've read this incredibly deep and meaningful quote. I am sure you will find you have no choice but to fall to your knees and praise Marx(PBUH) and the immortal science of Marxism.

I shit you not, this is there favorite definition of what communism is. They think this is a meaningful statement and definition of what it is they're trying to do. As anyone with two brain cells to rub together, you can see it's just pure sophistry. To call it a platitude would be to give it to much credit.

It doesn't matter what you said, it matters that it's a theory so it should be confirmed by facts. And Kaldor's facts refute it.

The capital/output ratio is roughly constant over long periods of time

How so?

Really, how so?

This is the answer. Nations of like minded individuals can self-determine. Societies aren't meant to have 50/50 splits on issues that are so bitterly important, this is because culture is downstream of genetics. Nations feel similarly enough on issues that matter. Like Germany in the 30s, they can collectively rise up against poison like the Weimar republic. This is why kikes want to flood every nation with mystery meat.

The best answer I can give is "go back to the ratio we had in the United States in the 1950's" burger flippers OWNED small homes, this was considered unblinking normal AND Capitalist.

It is not possible for me to give you an exact ratio because no matter what I say it'll be "not right" somehow, there is no one size fits all. All I'm saying is that I DONT want total equality, I just want white men to be able to OWN a house and pay for a woman and up to 4 children on ANY (yes, ANY) job.

Wages are not the ONLY lever to pull, you also need to change how building works, I would also like to eliminate all taxes on those making $75k or less.

Now he'll just accuse you of using AI to get to the definition and still claim you don't know what you're talking about

every single social ill is disproportionately driven by jews but you can't just blame them

How about we try things without them and see where we get?

didn't say the falling rate was a fact*

Regaedless it is however, sonfar as Kantor's are, and very much observable

You didn't even make an argument at all. You didn't even try. You're just screaming emotional word salads because someone dared suggest Elon Musk should not be a trillionaire

confusing nations with individual capitalist entities within a market

Oh my you are retarded

This is why kikes want to flood every nation with mystery meat.

The destruction of National Identity is the precursor to Globalism. The only question is if that Globalism will take on Capitalist or Communist flavoring, which is what the current ideological power struggle is about

If ONE person sees this discussion and goes "Hmm these jews seem to be up to something" then it's a good use of time. Always remember that. Conforming to jew society is the default. If 10,000,000 people see you arguing with a jew and even one of them walks away suspicious of these fucking kikes, it's a victory, because the default is total jew fealty. It's why countersemitism is on the rise. You cannot perpetually obscure the truth.

You're right. God bless you, brother. In the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, I pray for you and yours, and for all in this thread who are earnest in heart.

and that's why we need to defend capitalism at all costs bros

I pray for your swift conversion to Christianity and for your intellectual acceptance of Nationalism as the proper Political ideology soon

apply at Walmart today!

Lmao. So it does grow for all the businessmen but the overall doesn't change? I'm surprised. I thought you knew something about math, at least.

The only question is if that Globalism will take on Capitalist or Communist flavoring,

The difference is immaterial. A false dichotomy. Do you want the jew to fuck your left eye socket, or your right?
Simply by not giving into despair, you enrage them to no end.
You can click my ID and see that in my posts I do not say anything like that. So can others. The days of your jew world order are fucking numbers. That's why you're scrambling on an imageboard instead of kicking back on a goyim plantation. Rage against the dying of the light, kike.

Jesus made marx look like an oil barron. You do realize that the only two things that make it so you CAN NOT go to heaven is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit and being rich.

Why don't you live on a moneyless commune yet, Mr Communist?

>This is why kikes want to flood every nation with mystery meat.

The destruction of National Identity is the precursor to Globalism.
Ding ding ding correct.
When people are just viewed is nothing beside economic units, power consolidation is nearly complete, especially when banks have essentially unlimited power to print money. They then essentially control "human value".

Why says ch3? This is from Dalton.

You don't know what you're talking about. If God Himself commands you to sell your possessions and you can't, you don't love God more than money. That's why He said what he said