How does Anon Babble feel about Black's contributions to music? Are you able to accept that many great musicians were black?
Scott Joplin
Louis Armstrong
Charlie Parker
Thelonious Monk
Art Tatum
Stevie Wonder
I could go on - but i think these are examples enough
jazz is degeneracy. Black music in general lacks the class of white music, no matter the genre. Black rock feels disorganized, it's fit for a drug hallucination scene in a movie, white rock is ordered by comparison. Metal is pretty much exclusively white music and the same thing applies
Jazz is degenerate
What makes you think that? How much do you know about jazz?
well, the culture surrounding it of degeneracy, of drugs, drinking, gambling and whoring. But i am mostly talking about its sound. It's wild, lacks any sort of structure, and the trumpets especially facilitate such actions like the "partying" in a speakeasy (overdosing on heroin in a pile of hookers)
lacks any sort of structure
Oh - so you don't know what you're talking about. Got it
Jews were writing all that shit for them
Like black panther and civil right law
to put it in simple terms as maybe i'm not explaining myself properly, certain music makes your brain want to act in a certain way, or rather, it "Fits" certain actions. In a movie, you play metal in a fight scene for example. In a depressing scene, you use slow piano notes or a violin or a cello. If used in a movie, the perfect, and only, fit for jazz, would be in a degenerate scene of people high-as-a-kite partying and destroying their bodies and souls.
When I was learning the drum kit my instructor was an old white guy that was really heavy into jazz so that's the style I kind of learned with, but I never really developed an appreciation for the genre. The first time I heard some really fast thrash metal I instantly knew I wanted to play like that. Funk and motown are good but you might argue they're not entirely original (which I'd agree with), rap can be good sometimes but a huge majority is low-effort garbage, and even when it is good I don't feel any kind of connection to it.
Jazz music is America's greatest contribution to the arts. Not all of the great pioneers and masters of the art were black, but the majority were and a huge part of the inspiration and culture for the music itself came directly from black communities. It's a beautiful thing and we should all be thankful we live in a universe where it exists.
country is objectively better in every single possible way, and arguably thrash would be the best musical export if you want to make that argument. Like norway has black metal
If anything, jazz nowadays is stereotyped as sophisticated coffee shop music.
Jazz has much much more complex melody, rhythm and harmony. There's nothing wrong with country, but it doesn't reach the artistic heights of jazz at least in terms of complexity and originality
music makes your brain
Jazz is—by far, especially after the advances in the music of the late 1950s and subsequent—the most diverse musical art form, it both subsumes and collaborates with everything and every other culture it touches. There are more genres and subgenres within the now-arbitrary term 'jazz' (no, not the commericalized shallow ones either) than in any other musics on Earth.
Also I'm sorry romania anon but (You)'re a midwit and have zero concept or idea of what you are talking about. Not going to educate or 'convince' you itt either.
Anon Babble is the worst place on the internet to have a music thread discussion
yes, circling back to my point, that's white or white influenced jazz. Chet baker being the perfect example of both the degenerate aspects (his personal life) and the ordered hyperborean aryan soul within the music, if you wanna get schizo about it. The true negro jazz is disordered, it is wild, animalistic and appeals to base instinct
I guess. I do have an in group bias towards whites, but that doesn't mean that i have to make up an alternative history about everything.
I've always enjoyed R&B, soul, and funk.
Now all they make is rap, not even good rap anymore.
it being diverse means nothing. obviously under the umbrella of "jazz" most people think of the stereotypical "party music" of the 20s and 30s. By that same token hate forest and limp bizkit are both metal. Doesn't mean most people don't think of metallica when they think of metal
Chet baker is just one jazz artist retard. Many similar black artists to him. So what I'm getting from this is
I don't know anything about jazz
Chet baker literally toured with Charlie parker and played bebop lmao
Jazz is music for those who like to celebrate themselves with mental masturbation via music. It is the modern art equivalent of beauty in musical form.
Modern country is nothing but Pop/Top 40 sang with a twang.
yes, do you know what an example is?
Have (You) comprehended or listened closely to any of the music Baker made in the 1980s in Europe after his "comeback" to music making?
Again (you) have absolutely zero idea or concept of the subject itt or moreover of music overall. Absolutely none
Are you able to accept that many great musicians were black?
Yes.
I like many black blues guitar players. That does not redeem their race.
mental masturbation
That is (You) posting in a Anon Babble music thread
the greatest trainwreck topics of this board
talk about a lack of self awareness
Can you guys post some examples of good/bad jazz songs so we know what you're talking about? Maybe say why they suck or why they're good. Don't post the ones everyone already knows.
For me it's Anthony Braxton. He may be a nigger but his music has the neuroticism of a white man.
My point was that there's many black musicians that played with similar style and capability
Look in a mirror.
Keep posting to make (You)rself more ludicrous, brainlet.
There's no denying that blacks had good musicians. My grip is that the worst black "music" is the most popular right now.
All nigger music is actually made by kikes
They dumbed it down to repetitive jungle jive and new generations literally don't know better
Anthony Braxton
Extraordinary talent, among many of his early influences was Stan Kenton (particularly the experimental large ensemble work)
He did the hecking racism!
Nigger music is basedarino!
There's tons of great black musicians, I won't deny it. Art Blakey, John Coltrane, Kenny Garret, etc.
youtube.com
What I rightfully deny is the bastardized, false history of music. The false claims that niggers invented these genres and the false claims that these genres popped up in a vacuum. Most African-American music culture is derived from Irish-American music culture; Nearly all black slang in relationship to music throughout the 19th and 20th century are Irish loanwords. Everything else can find it's origins on the British Isles, or had its origins in Americana music that was already being played by the white settlers who lived there before slavery of blacks was established.
Black gospel music? Scottish in origin.
Jazz? The first recorded jazz record (and first instance of a band referring to themselves as jazz as a style of music) was a white band, the Dixieland Jazz Band. The word jazz itself? An Irish loanword, derived from the word Teas/Deas (pronounced jass). "Teas" originally meant "heat/"; but became Irish/Irish-American slang to refer to intense, passionate, improvized music. When the word came to America and mixed in with the African-American slaves it was spelled jazz/jazzy, and calling music "jazzy" predates the actual genre of jazz by decades.
Blues? Rock music? You can literally hear the structural origins of negro guitar music in various folk songs around the British Isles going back to the fucking 1700s.
Also for memes' sake even though it's probably not true, Europeans had medieval rap battles that carried on in Scottish pubs for centuries; Flyting was the rhythmic poetic exchange of insults between two opponents, often to a a stomped/clapped beat from an audience.
But i am mostly talking about its sound. It's wild, lacks any sort of structure
*blocks your path*
youtube.com
some examples
Jazz is too diverse in the post-1950s era to post 'muh representative example'.
You simply need to wade into the vast ocean that is jazz music on your own. Many varied shores, from which you can enter this ocean.
There's not 'one way', or 'five ways' to hear or interpret or play or appreciate jazz.
For instance, many of the jazz standard songs that were interpreted (from Broadway plays) by successive generations of jazz musicians, were performed and arranged in many different ways with different ensembles, but also with different concepts of improvisation within both the song itself, and also within the ensemble (that dependent not only on the size of the group/how many musicians were in it, but also on the type of instruments they played, the way that the musicians interacted with and improvised off of each others' playing inside of the song etc.)
John Coltrane revolutionized the way songs were heard and improvised within jazz and popular music, with his 1960 version of "My Favorite Things". But there are tens of thousands of other permutations of these styles.
Pick any particular jazz standard song, from thousands of them, and with that one song observe how it was performed and by myriad different artists / ensembles from, let's say 1935 to 1995.
There are millions upon millions of paths to take and grow upon in this music
to make my point more clear and straightforward.
Jazz music, that is, what one instinctively thinks of when they think of jazz, the rowdy 30s party music, is an inherently alien, degenerate style of music, and no wonder, as it comes from alien, degenerate people (blacks and jews). There are some white participants of course, but they tone it down and make the music "whiter". More ordered, nicer and cleaner, as is their nature. But the core itself is rotten. On the other hand, metal, even black metal as ironic as the name might sound, is inherently aryan. Sure there are a few blacks in the genre who make their own, more negrified subgenres, but the core is white.
is an inherently alien, degenerate style of music, and no wonder, as it comes from alien, degenerate people (blacks and jews).
The origins of Jazz are literally Irish.
I don't care about music. I think the American obsession with musicians and celebs is dumb.
Romania flag 9 pbtid
what one instinctively thinks of
Who? (You)?
(You) are a brainlet with absolutely zero concept or frame of reference for what (You) post here
How old are (You)? Post (You)r chronological age
why is reading comprehension so fucking hard for you people
Black achievements in music were only possible due to white influence. Look at what African niggers that weren't influenced by white civilization were doing with music at the time. They were still just beating on drums in extremely basic rhythms like the primitive tribals they were. It took whites elevating niggers for them to finally do something with music.
So any achievement you attribute to niggers should really be attributed to whites.
What, something like this?
youtube.com
Only listened to the first 3. I don't think it's bad but it's not something I would listen on my own time. Something about it annoys me.
youtube.com
That's alright I guess
(You) need to be 18 to post here.
Your problem is you clearly have no idea what you are talking about and it's obvious to anyone who does.
I like the sound of saxophone so i have to give them some credit...but most of that was overwritten by nigger rap and my hate for it.
If i am to be honest, i hate white people that listen to nigger rap more than niggers themselves.
something like this
Braxton isn't 'beginner' jazz. I wouldn't recommend his recorded work to a newbie, it's not easily accessible
But for those interested in the advanced post-1960s forms of music improvisation and composition (including people with conservatory training in western classical music) he's a goldmine
This goes for a lot of things beyond music but it's incredible the more you dig into it, the more you realize that a lot of pre-1960s African-American culture was literally lifted/stolen from the Irish-Americans, who gradually lost that culture as Irish-Americans stopped being treated as lower class and assimilated into the middle class.
So many nigger slang that we associate with niggers came from the Irish.
alright, prove me wrong. Is the stereotypical "party jazz" not negrified and degenerate?
and don't give me that
ummm ackshually my prog-esoteric-hyper-niche jazz is aryan and cultured
the same way people don't care about my hitlerian national socialist black metal and see "metal" as metallica or judas priest, i see your jazz as louis armstrong and his incoherent niggerbabble. Sure, some is faster, some is slower, some is created by italians and some by anglos, it's all negrified to the core
Is the stereotypical "party jazz" not negrified and degenerate?
I listen to a lot of jazz and genuinely don't know what you're referring to. Feel free to listen to my recs Miles Davis had some negative views on whites, so what? His music is good and that's what I'm talking about. He played with a lot of white musicians, btw. I think he was just mad when he made that particular quote, but I've seen lots of videos where he wasn't so bitter
30s jazz is swing - duke Ellington, count basis, etc. Very nice "well structured" (in the sense that it was tightly arranged)
no bro jazz is not negrified and disorganized and degenerate here listen to my recs
The recs in question
Care to elaborate? I mean no shit jazz is "negrified" in the sense that it's literally made by black people. But I'm curious why you don't like such piano music
youtube.com
'Saxophone Colossus' is one of the definitive 1950s modern jazz small group sessions.
Tommy Flanagan was one of the greatest post-bebop era pianists (later worked with Ella Fitzgeralf for many years), Doug Watkins an under-recognized bassist that sadly died too young in an automobile accident, and Max Roach the greatest drummer of modern jazz.
Sublime and absolutely timeless music peformed by giants
it is far too disordered for my autistic ears. i dislike it because it "jumps" too much. Perhaps i'm incapable of explaining, but the best i can do is it is too "wild" for how such an instrument is supposed to sound. To my ears it's like playing a metal riff on an ukulele, but somehow more annoying. It's just jarring
Yeah that's your problem - it's literally too complex for you to discern the structure lol. This is one of the most virtuosic and complex performances ever. If you want simpler music that's fine, but some men need to reach for the heights of what is possible, even if it means alienating popular appeal
It doesn't mean I want to live around them
complexity itself is not the problem, it is the far too rapid change in tone.
it is a sort of tonal whiplash. I'm sure you would agree that a 30 second drum solo after 2 minutes of non-stop slow, sloooow piano would also be complex. Does that make it good?
Not my thing. 1 and 4 feel random and disjointed. 3 is ok I guess but not my thing.
You can't post examples of good songs because it's 2deep4me? You're sounding too snobbish about it, from what I heard here it mostly sounds random (or "improvised") and disjointed. Chaotic and technical for the sake of it but without transmitting any emotion.
I wouldn't say the 2nd one is bad it just doesn't appeal to me emotionally but I can see why it's technically good. I guess you need to be in a specific state of mind to appreciate jazz, I don't seem to resonate with it.
I do get what you mean that it lacks structure. Compare to this and tell me jazz is fun to listen to. Wtf? youtube.com
sounds like something out of deus ex at first. A bit too fast for my taste but could also be that i'm tired now. Fun to listen to and infinitely more appealing than any of the jazz itt. Enjoyed the little drum solo section and the guitar solo ~4min. Also interesting phenomenon, it seemed to get slower and more normal to listen to as the song went on despite it being almost the same speed throughout
What you need to understand is that the feeling of "random" or "disjointed" is just a lack of comprehension. It's like listening to a foreign language and saying it's incomprehensible
2deep4me
Did (You) read my other posts itt?
(You) are the fucking *snob* itt.
Idgaf whether or not you 'like' or take affection for jazz or any other music.
'fun to listen to'
Brainlet. Music is an art form (*any* music not merely jazz)
Unfortunately (You)r internet generation-addled kind is part and parcel of imminent doom of the human race.
'muh random and disjointed'
That post, by the other anon, of four (4) separate sample tracks was one set of *millions* of different musical tastes in the vast universe that is jazz music. Go spend some time with it. Lifetimes have been spend by the artists making jazz music, and also by dedicated listeners and supporters of the art form, in cultivating that.
It's not just spending 90 minutes on a Anon Babble thread "well I'm not convinced so there"
Go back and re-read—even study for that matter—
my upthread post that got up your nose, brainlet *Snob*.
Amazing that we have the technology and infrastructure for infinite access to a gigadatabase of the world's finest music and this is what passes for enlightenment
yeah bullshit. In the song he linked there are 300 guitar solos sprinkled here and there but the song still has a grounded structure.
I dunno what is wrong with your autism, but the simple fact is that the recs I gave are not in any sense "random". There is a structure - but hey you don't know what you don't know
ok, point out what the structure is, or even where it is, around the timestamp i gave here
Try this it might ? be more (You)r speed
youtube.com
Album is 42 minutes duration so
don't snark back on here in 3 minutes with a non-response
Part of what makes the recordings enjoyable is that there is a structure. If it was random then it would he shit. These people are virtuosos playing in an extremely precise way. If it was random BS anyone could do it. Just think about it logically lmao
I despise every last nigger who ever lived and I hate every fucking thing about them.
Music is a toy you little dumb faggot a utter joke time waster and was totally and utterly mastered hundreds of years ago.
What do you want me to do - give you a link to the transcription? Give you a course on music theory?
toy
Lol, (You) are a conservatory graduate, yes bong?
Prove it
fucking music threads on Anon Babble are best trainwrecks
A shiterican kneeler replying to me? Get off your knees shiterican. Music has always been a toy. You "play" music faggot.
Making a music thread for racists to take the bait for
Spoken like a true faggot paki
Big brave bong, fucking kek
What the fuck is occurring on those faggotpolluted islands again?
kek your foreskin is never coming back btw
You are the bacterial less-than-worthless subfilth that needs Flamethrowered from Earth's surface
It is one of few things at which they're great.
So all those "doctors and engineers" should be encouraged to start their own sound systems instead of being shoven where they obviously do not belong.
youtube.com
surely if you understand it so well you can just give a simple explanation. For example in acid rain the snares are the structure.
wall of text instead of posting one good jazz song
how about you post a song instead of being a seether?
most jazz songs posted itt suck ass and give credence to the critiques made here
I just found this little nigga called sun-ra because I was searching for something straight up avant-gard to compare to jazz and its lack of structure. Turns out this guy is considered something inbetween jazz and avant-gard and he seems to have been one of the original we wuz (pic related)
Surprisingly, this music was kinda good youtube.com
yeah they're good at sports too
You poisoned the whole world with your niggerlovingkneeling culture you shiterican. You turned your back on europe and look at the state of your dead country. Our country is fucked because you took us into wars in the middle east during the 2000s you dumb kneeler. Great allie you are...
I don't care.
now this has structure. It's not my cup of tea personally but infinitely better than any of these snobs' jazz i've seen in this thread. We wuzzery justified
compared to hip hop it was great.
sun-ra
Yes he had a long and diverse history with his band ensembles—the Arkestra—from 1940s onward.
Recommended for (You) would be the late 1950s recording 'Sun Song', listen to that whole album.
Again, though: Sun Ra that artist alone is a hugely diverse body of work; and this topic is far too vast to cover in a single Anon Babble thread. And I simply dgaf what kind of music you do or don't listen to or what your notion of 'entertainment' or how to spend your time, is
'muh credence'
(You) are a brainlet. Hopefully the fact that (You) were able to pick up on Sun Ra is an indicator that you might gain an education in and appreciation for this music. Good luck
Uh I don't think you even know what the word "structure" means.
I listened to the part you linked and I don't know what you don't understand lol. It's some chromatic sequence repeated 3 times? That's the structure lol
turned your back on europe
What do you want a medal?
I dont care about anything niggers do you fucking cuckservative piece of shit, all niggers should be destroyed
Neither do we.
this is a music thread on Anon Babble I'm just here for the fucking lulz
memeflag
Let us know when (You) put your money where your mouth is
Yes also I only listen to rap with real message not gay shit with autotune youtube.com
Are you able to accept that the period of racial segregation was the time the greatest black artists were created?
Separate but equal, of opportunity, but clearly not outcome.
Listened to 1/4th of it and it's kinda good actually, might listen again later.
It's different from most other jazz posted here in the sense that it has a perceptible structure but is not tedious.
I don't know why I had to pull your teeth for you to post something, it's easier to know what you're talking about if you post an example of it.
Also when we say random it obviously doesn't mean that it's totally random, we can understand all the chord progressions and whatever going on it's just that it feels random since it's not going anywhere. I think that acid rain song exemplifies what I mean quite well since it has a kind of theme or something underneath that just makes sense and feels good to listen to.
And yes if you're telling me to listen to 50 years of jazz in order to get it you're being a snob. Anyone can listen to a few jazz songs and get it, the context is unnecessary. It's like someone asking about thrash metal and instead of showing him a few metallica and megadeth songs you tell him to go study the history of heavy metal and punk and whatever else otherwise he will never understand "Battery". It's snobbish. I appreciate you posting that album, don't resent me.
it's just that it feels random since it's not going anywhere.
According to your preception, maybe, but not to others. Why is this so hard for people like you to understand? Seriously.
..
Anyone can listen to a few jazz songs and get it, the context is unnecessary
Your post is a perfect counterexample. You don't get it - but you're not even smart enough to realize you don't get it
listen
(You) need to learn and listen. *Listen* to the music (any music but especially and in particular jazz music). As other anons have pointed out itt jazz music of the 20th century has at least as big and complex a corpus as does western classical music with all the rigor study and voluminous heritage accompanying it.
Grow up and stop acting like a petulant internet offended child
Idgaf what you do for entertainment. All we're emphasizing here is that jazz music is a much bigger thing than some entertainment genre, artists have devoted careers and multiple generations of work (long prior to the internet) to it. Jazz is a great art form on par with western classical music and other forms of music and art.
You think that people should preface everything they say with a "to my perception / in my opinion" instead of assuming this like everyone else in the world does and then you try to posture as if you're smart?
Having a different music taste is not a valid indicator of intelligence but demanding every sentence to be preceded by "in my opinion" is.
Im sure they were great but I dont listen to their music anyway.
Anyone can listen to a few jazz songs and get it
Holy fucking fuck.
Anon Babble music threads, the trainwreck of trainwrecks
you try to posture as if you're smart
Sampling is the worst thing to ever happen to music.
Not only does it make music more generic but it also destroys the communal nature of music. Classical music takes an entire orchestra to perform. Folk music was meant to be played live with audience participation. Music stealing AKA "sampling" makes the producer an absolute oligarch which is furthers the alienation of the working-class from music.
So why is sampling so celebrated by academic elites?
In the 1940s the CIA launched the Congress for Cultural Freedom, a think-tank designed to channel funds into the anti-Soviet left. They funded artists who appeared "leftist" but were actually anti-Marxist and anti-proletarian. This included propping up hideous and meaningless modern "art" as a means of alienating the working-class from the arts and ensuring art could only be appreciated by pompous cultured elites.
youtube.com
The CIA and the academic elites whom it funds have been behind the rise of sample-based music for this exact same reason. This “music” is disoriented, disorganized, and ugly and creates a sense of resentment and nihilism in its listeners. The same people who think J Dilla pushing buttons on a sampler was “innovative” are the same people who think Jackson Pollock splattering paint on a canvas was “innovative.” And this is precisely why cultured elites promote rap and sample-based "music": they want to demoralize you and alienate you so you see the world as nothing but ugliness and lose all faith in your fellow man.
Art under real socialism is about celebrating the beauty of everyday working people and festering a sense of solidarity and brotherhood. The USSR made beautiful music. China bans rap and gets its school children learning real music, namely classical. They don’t give kids MPCs to learn how to “sample” but give them actual instruments. That’s because real socialism isn’t about romanticizing the gutter but about advancing humanity
As long as you admit it simply "feels random" to you - and it's not actually random, that's fine.
Just like Chinese "feels random" to me despite being highly structured.
So if someone says "chinese is dumb, it feels totally random, and don't tell me I learn the language, I can listen to Chinese and understand it." Would you agree that person is retarded? Because that's basically how you sound.
Having musical taste is one thing, but trying to say something is random or unstructured is totally different from having a taste
I see a big interesting discussion of jazz in the thread. Before reading I want to say one thing.
To understand the essence of a phenomenon, look at what it gives birth to, i.e. what it all evolves to. Jazz, no matter how good it was, evolved into rap. And rap is a real pain in my ass, I hate rap very much, rap as music gave me the most primitive feelings, the most chaotic-animal-aggressive feelings, I can't put into words how much rap makes me feel terrible. So...
I don't care, I know they inspired rock n roll but they did not directly make the rock music that I like, so they effectively contributed nothing to the music I like.
Highly questionable if rap has anything to do with jazz. Jazz died before rap was born
Why are all the great black musicians, from the Americas? Are there any from Africa?
offended
Why do you presume I felt offended at any point itt?
I call your attitude snobbish because it is, not because I am offended or starting a fight.
I don't care about all these descriptors you are using to paint this picture about jazz. Who the fuck cares. You are the one who started replying to me as if I committed a grave sin by asking people to illustrate what they're talking about by posting some examples of jazz songs.
Imagine if we're talking about some other genre and I would go off about a "voluminous heritage of multiple generations". Give me a break faggot. I bet rap enjoyers say the same thing about that genre too. Drop the chip from your shoulder.
music is for the low IQ
Drop the chip from your shoulder
Look in the mirror Brainlet.
for you
That ('Hymn of the Seventh Galaxy') was not posted for (You) it was for the Romania flag a direct reply to *his* post. Not (You) Has nothing at all whatsoever to do with (You) (but we're glad you enjoyed the first part of it whatever)
Also besides that one, I posted a lot of other "example" music links upthread, not here to babysit spoonfeed or mentor this topic for retards that can go explore the vast internet themselves and spend rest of their natural lives *on their own* seeking out, learning from and listening to jazz like hundreds of thousands of other people so rewardingly do. It's all out there for anyone with intellectual inquiry and thirst for art, creativity to enrich themselves. It's a gift from the artists, to each of us.
Here, this is a page for (You):
en.wikipedia.org
You take the word "random" as some kind of personal insult but it wasn't meant in that way.
Obviously when someone says "X feels random" it's implicit that it feels random to them (that's why they used the word "feel" instead of "is")
If I wanted to say that it's objectively random I would have explicitly said that instead but I'm appealing to an irrational part of the self - the feeling, the emotional
Hell you can even argue that true randomness doesn't exist if you want... totally missing the mark of what was being conveyed.
Anyway the point was simply to say that it feels more loose than other genres where there's often some overarching theme.
If I used the word loose instead of random you would probably be fine with it, but what I'm conveying is the same thing.
I don't add any negative connotation to the word random like you seem to, I'm just arguing in good faith and keeping it as simple as possible so the emotional state is clear and obvious.
If I wanted to be a snob and dunk on jazz I would be using words like self-indulgent, dissonant, tedious or disharmonious but instead i'm just conveying my emotional state.
Listen
youtube.com
shut the fuck up, and listen
shut up
youtube.com
This is unironically superior to all jazz put together
unironically
Back to plebbit.
(You) are the definition of why the internet was a mistake
and prove it with each additional post itt
I already know that you idiot. Look at my example re: chinese. "Chinese feels random to me"
How many times can I repeat myself. You just said a really dumb thing, that's all.
other genres where there's often some overarching theme
How many times do you need to be told - jazz does have an overarching theme and structure in the songs. You apparently just can't perceive them.
I don't add any negative connotation to the word random
I am not criticizing your connotation. I am pointing out what you are saying is just incorrect, in a factual sense.
i'm just conveying my emotional state.
And I'm explaining it to you.
The irony is people like you say jazz is pretensious- its like saying people who speak Chinese are pretensious. That's how stupid you sound
Thank you, I will take this statement into account when studying the topic.
They all suck but Howard Jones made the best Killswitch songs.
Dilla made good music though?
Music (specially the instrumental kind we're mostly discussing here) transcends language meaning it can be listened and understood by people from any nationality.
That's why your analogy is retarded. It's not analogous at all. I can't understand Chinese because it's a language that you have to learn in order to understand.
I can play moonlight sonata to anyone all over the globe and they will all get it. I dont need them to take a piano class beforehand. I can play all genres of music really and everyone gets it. Except for jazz, according to you. Jazz is the only genre of music where you need to "study the voluminous heritage" in order to get it. "Everyone who doesn't like it like me is just very stupid. Just like the Chinese"
That's it for sure... Great point
How come niggers are so bad at maths? Mathematics is the language of music, do niggers even understand what they are doing or are they like animals who do complex things by mere instinct?
Music would be far more soulful and intelligent if not for them.
Imagine a constant stream of masterpieces like what Bethooven, Mozart, and Chopin produced. Increasing in complexity and beauty year after year.
But, because of niggers, low IQ nigger brains have demanded repetitive beats and jungle sounds. No complexity, no beauty. Just the same four chords over and over again accompanied by screeching and wailing.
Bethooven will be listened to, and remembered for centuries to come.
Jay Z and the likes will be completely forgotten in a generation.
How does Anon Babble feel about Black's contributions to music?
Black music was great. Endless classics that are easy to listen to, and genre-defining moments. If blacks were good at anything, it's music. Unfortunately the Jew Bob Dylan introduced the incapable, retarded ones to the idea that they could sing when he released the first true rap, Subterrannean Homesick Blues. This led to any mongoloid who could rhyme two words trying to get a hit song by spouting garbage in quick succession. It spread like a disease in the black community, and real music died.
and understood
Nope, to understand something new means to be able to describe/define it in your own language that you already know. Try have a nigger musician describe a Bach cantata and you will realize how little they understand about how music even works.
/thread
OP is a faggot, many such cases.
Nope, nigger music is subhuman and you should be hanged for promoting it.
No, (You) need to shut the fuck up and just listen to it brainlet. Simple as
'muh moonlight sonata' hurr durr
I like Dizzy Gillespie and a lot of smooth jazz black musicians. They are the non-nigger type of blacks (yes I know all have nigger in them).
all that shit comes from your country. good try though. whether you admit to this or not won't change reality
Any of these raised and educated in black ruled nations?
Any of these playing musical styles that weren't an adaptation of European folklore?
Any of them playing an instrument created by their own kind?
I have a dog, love him, very kind friendly and pretty, he even learned a few tricks and is well behaved most of the time
I feel very proud in the way i raised him
Same sentiment can be applied to any Black artist or atlethe of renown or relevance
Music literally is a language. Different genres are different languages. Dude - you literally don't know what you don't know, it's insane.
I can play all genres of music really and everyone gets it. Except for jazz
No - what I'm saying applies to all genres, not just jazz. But more complex genres are harder to get. And it's funny you mention beethoven because in my opinion he's a very difficult composer to understand. His late sonatas and quartets are notoriously difficult to comprehend and in my opinion require many listening to get.
according to you
Nah bro, you totally made that shit up. I say: "you don't understand jazz" and you extrapolate to all this shit I never said lol.
study the voluminous heritage
Not what I said. You don't need to study anything - just listen a few times. You're the one who said it "sounds random" to you.
Everyone who doesn't like it like me is just very stupid. Just like the Chinese
Do you think someone is "stupid" because they don't understand Chinese? Does that make sense to you? Know - you're stupid because you're stupid.
It's amazing because I'm trying to explain something pretty simple to you, but you are so unable to get it.
When I first listened to jazz I didn't "get it" either. So I know from experience. But I wasn't such a stubborn retard like you
Retards who are obviously unfamiliar with artists OP referenced in main post. You can lead a horse to water...
No one asked you nigger.
Listening to nigger music in the first place
It comes from the arrogance and insecurity of not understanding or comprehending what music even is, never mind jazz music.
Western classical music for example, is an art form. For those (well, at least the vast majority of them let us say...) who have studied and trained in that music at the conservatory/played it professionally, these people have a certain humility and *knowledge of their own limits* within that art form as to ability to perform it, to execute it properly from the technical proficiency perspective alone, let alone the emotional and artistic talent and expression component.
Same of course is required and demonstrated in jazz, even more so in the diverse forms that emerged post-1930s.
If you don't have this basic comprehension and recognition of the work, effort, proficiency and study, attention needed then you simply have not humbled yourself in awareness of your own limitations. Arrogance and hubris though permeate all forms of art including music. And then midwits get onto the internet projecting their lack of comprehension, knowledge and insecurity about all manner of topics. Plus the additional "it was real in my mind" augmentation of those terminally online all day following 'muh genres' spoonfed to them via their smartphone FB feeds
Rare based anglo calling our amerimutts
Stay ignorant retard
i only listen to gucci mane
Keep sucking off niggers artists
One more nigger artist to be satisfied and they'll become good boys
fake and gay
Why in your mind does listening to music have to be about "sucking off" artists?
everything is hyper focused so sure theres some good stuff like jazz or something, or proper flowing rhyme
but most is trash, psyopped popular trash. And white identity and music is overlooked.
its all about the black man nowadays.
When they got a whole fucking continent of their own We made pianos hundreds of years ago lol . We invented music
but those little drums you can prolly learn a beat or two
i think if they were able to get back to the level of unironic discipline of the old jazzers, we wouldnt have a fucking problem at all
i frequently say charles mingus was the last great composer, and i dont think its an exaggeration. he took what the 20th century nerds were doing and made it sound good instead of being mathematically driven garbage. also excellent application of ives idea of running several themes on top one another. time changes without being robotic and gay etc etc
the diff between those guys and the nogs of today is discipline
those old guys during the civil rights era had something to prove. and they proved it, imo.
you dont see none of that today in the broader population. if anything they bucket-of-crabs anyone trying to not be a thug gangbanger out on da corner slinging cracksacks. call em a fucking oreo
How does Anon Babble feel about Black's contributions to music?
I think it is probably exaggerated to soften white peoples' view of them.
Are you able to accept that many great musicians were black?
Yes I can accept that there have been talented black musicians.
this
music is a discipline
the great musicians always had great discipline
maybe sometimes their personal lives were out of control. a lot of times actually, not even just a nog thing.
but you put em on stage and put a horn in their hand, suddenly its an actual purpose. something to live for. something to study
ppl need something like that or the wheels fall off
Music literally is a language.
No it's not. If I walk to a Chinese rice farmer and start talking Portuguese he won't understand shit. If I play moonlight sonata he will understand it. Comparing music to language is stupid.
There is nothing to "get" about jazz. You don't have a big brain because you enjoy it, I'm saying it feels random for reasons I already stated previously. I can force myself to sit down and listen to it but it's a chore. It sucks. It feels random. It's not enjoyable. With some exceptions.
You think because something is technically difficult and the guy is going pipiapapdedepapdepapapeeepeipi on the trumpet that this somehow makes it interesting. It doesn't. I was falling asleep and feeling absolutely nothing when some of those songs were going all over the place but when I listen to that acid rain song I feel something.
Jazz is the kind of music that you put on the background just to have some noise while talking to people or doing some other thing. It's not something you listen actively to.
Like look at this guy
Claiming you need to study music theory to enjoy classic music. Topkek fucking peak snobbery. It's like the guys that say you have to play a videogame for 100 hours before it gets good.
Chet Baker (mentioned upthread) is actually a great example of this. He was a superbly talented trumpet player, and singer, in his 1950s heyday but his life spun out of control. Then he was decades later able to get a second wind, and a late chapter to his career working with a whole new generation of dedicated proficient musicians, with music that overall sounded different from what came years earlier from him, but also the continuity of his sound on the trumpet and his vocal/singing that was the 'same' Chet.
to enjoy
I never said that. Wtf
It's about the people that create the art.
Everyone can go see the symphony, listen to Tchaikovsky. Whatever
They don't need "training" to enjoy vintage melodies, harmonies. But, there are different levels to music appreciation. And having performed music oneself, studied or learned to play a specific instrument, all of that augments one's appreciation of music (compared to a person that never played an instrument or studied). Fact.
muh topkek muh snob
(You) are the fucking *Snob* itt.
Pathetic little teenage internet *brainlet* snob throwing that term around
Honestly, I think you have a hard time even understanding English based on how poor you are at understanding what I've said.
You don't need a "big brain" to understand jazz - you just need to listen to it a bit.
Moonlight Sonata is really easy to understand. It's like babbys first classical music.
Complex music is hard to understand. If you don't realize that then you don't know what you don't knew. Because obviously complex music is harder to understand
Chet Baker
I prefer the music of Chet Hanks.
Not gonna suck off niggers because they're le artist and shieet
Nigger music trash is popular because of american hegemony
They could sell shit in bottles and people will still buying if it came with good marketing or aggressive promotion
moartea americii
Comparing music to language is stupid.
and then you go to persia and the entire language falls apart. they dont even really HAVE harmony. but they do have many more notes than anything coming from the greek diatonic school of thought. each spot in the middle east and north africa has slightly different intonations for their microtones. the language literally changes along cultural lines. meanwhile bali has like 100 notes per octave. then you go to the cape of africa and suddenly the western understanding of how rhythm even works falls apart completely. end up in the balkans and suddenly odd time signatures are the norm, not the exception. all because bulgarians have a two-syllable word for the number 4
etc
its very much a language. just because english is the lingua franca of the world, doesnt mean portuguese doesnt still exist
I can force myself to sit down and listen to it but it's a chore
try some more tightly composed stuff. big band stuff like count basie, duke ellington would work. mingus is an interesting one, as he uses both the tight composition AND the random elements of improvisation. literally makes them PART of the composition.
imo, jazzers were the ones that inherited the western classical tradition of harmony. they got it from le belle epoch in france. debussy, ravel, these guys started using big fat extension chords, parallel movement (cuz fuck bachs rules anyways), then jazzers picked up the pieces and pushed it even further. many of the jazz greats were known to carry around contemporary scores. even a bit of cross-pollination, with ravel visiting harlem during the renaissance and returning to write some of his best work
then theres BR and argentina. they pushed western harmony to its absolute limits with bossa nova. try jobim, youll at least be able to understand the lyrics. fascinating harmony
for me its techno and house music
youtu.be
youtu.be
youtu.be
charles mingus
checked, after Duke Ellington he's the greatest composer that jazz music produced. I mean, all of the jazz masters were great composers; includes the great instrumentalists (Sonny Rollins, Coltrane, Charlie Parker, Thad Jones) that all wrote things adopted into the standard repertoire; plus the bebop masters Bud Powell, Dizzy Gillespie and Thelonious Monk. Ellington and Mingus though were also great orchestrators and bandleaders. Mingus added all of the early-mid 20th century modernist composer concepts and integrated those into his work. He also had some of the most amazing band ensembles, like the 1964 sextet with Johnny Coles, Jaki Byard, Clifford Jordan, Eric Dolphy that toured Europe.
'The Black Saint and The Sinner Lady' (1963) is a stunning album and work. Mingus kept making great albums and had superb bands to the end of his life during the 1970s
another anon posted one of his pieces
But you're just assuming because you're clearly unfamiliar with the mentioned artists. So you're just talking out your ass like a retard lol
debussy, ravel
Charlie Parker and Charles Mingus were each students and huge enthusiasts of their scores and work. It's part of why the 1940s and bebop era were such a vast transformation of jazz music and how it sounded
2complex4u
complexity is not what makes a music good and enjoyable
perhaps you can explain why a music like this youtube.com
Is it because of "complexity"?
Or maybe it's because one is clearly more structured than the other?
I don't agree with this notion that some music is hard to understand. It either resonates with you or it doesn't.
Ikr ? Fuck these fucking cunts - I'm gonna chuck on some Bobby Hutcherson and salvage my evening.
Bobby Hutcherson
One of my favs anon
and imho one of the under-recognized absolute sublime masters of the art
Eric Dolphy
my favorite. apparently mingus favorite too. he was completely crushed when he died
guy used to sit in his backyard and talk with the birds. an intensely devoted and well-studied musician, not just in jazz, but classical and world musics
with his multiphonics and eccentric use of the trill keys/alt fingerings, he was basically getting into noise music before the tech had even been invented. WAY out ahead of the pack
Johnny Coles, Jaki Byard, Clifford Jordan, Eric Dolphy
dont forget dannie richmond
prolly my fav jazz drummer, period
guys so fucking cool
perhaps you can explain why a music like this
i already told you
a lot of jazz is based around heavy improvisation. thats the kind of stuff that becomes a lot more interesting with a little bit of musical knowledge
you want the more tightly composed stuff
theyll usually have a spot for a solo or two, but the composition is more the focus, while the solos are just for fun and spontaneity. not everyones taking 4hr horn solos like coltrane. im not rly big into that stuff either tbph, its a bit masturbatory imo
I never said complexity is what makes music good. Fuck are you hallucinating or something?
I just said complex things are harder to understand than simpler things. This is why we play simple music for children.
perhaps you can explain why a music like this
Because you are already familiar with the idiom/musical language? You listen to guitar based metal music, and don't listen to much piano/sax/bass based bebop?
one is clearly more structured than the other
You keep using that word "structured." I have no idea what you think it means. I play piano and guitar. Feel free to explain it to me as technically as needed.
Strode rode is based on a chord progression and a melody. It's a 4/4 time signature.
There is structure - just not the kind you seem to understand apparently. If there was no structure it would sound like total garbage.
I don't agree with this notion that some music is hard to understand
Well you're extremely ignorant about music history, then. Ever heard of beethoven's Grosse fugue?
If blacks were in Africa it'd still be oogabooga music. They can thank whites for inventing everything they needed to make music.
Dolphy
Absolutely. He was incredibly well studied, used to spend all of his spare time practicing horns or flute. Was a former student of the great Buddy Collette. His flute playing proficiency is astounding, several artists including James Newton have recorded/played tributes to Dolphy's flute prowess. And yes he was moving to Europe in the last year of his life unfortunately for Mingus and the rest of America's jazz community he'd never be seen again. Dolphy was a massive influence on jazz musicians all over Europe in the latter half of the 1960s and through the 1970s
youtube.com
Dannie Richmond
He and Mingus were the beating heart rhythm section of all those bands from 1950s onward
if you like the later post-Mingus stuff, in some of the 70s bands were saxophonist George Adams and pianist Don Pullen, who later formed their own Adams-Pullen Quartet and they had a string of albums and recordings in the 1980s with Cameron Brown, bass and Richmond on drums. Played in NYC a lot
just part of the huge continuing story of jazz art, goes on and on
Corrected the video URL
youtube.com
Rap: Niggers gloating about frivolous purchases and other niggers rebuking them for forgetting the "art" (while also bragging in the next track)
Jazz: Musical masturbation.
Trap: Cartel polka for niggers.
R&B: Generic fuck anthems that all sound the same
Blues: Write a blog, faggot
There are some good black musicians, but a great many of the celebrated ones were just thieves of white music.
Go read about Miles Davis and Bill Evans.
Miles Davis steals a single song from Bill Evans and that's all you know about him? Davis was an incredible musician you fucking pleb
jazz music alright
I don't understand Chinese. It's an alien language to me.
According to your logic I should also not be able to understand Bali songs? Are there any examples to demonstrate what you're talking about? Is it something like this? youtube.com
Appreciate the recommendations
I think if you have a 5 min song and 4 min of it is improvising then it's fair to call it random but apparently I can't use that word for some reason. But I agree with your point.
Because you are already familiar with the idiom/musical language?
Maybe
I play piano and guitar. Feel free to explain it to me as technically as needed.
I don't play anything. I said from the start it's all based on feels. One song I feel like it's going from point A to point D and the other is going nowhere and it means nothing to me. For example on strode rode the bass is loud but completely tedious and superfluous never going anywhere. I compare it to the drums from paradigm shift that are always telling a story and trying to create a new structure. I'm falling asleep listening to the repetitive bass from strode rode but am always engaged with the drums from paradigm shift. Even though they are different instruments I feel it's a fair comparison because they are the ones driving the song and allowing for things to be built on top of them as a listener. From 40 secs onwards strode rode is nothing more than this tedious repetition for the most part and the main instrument just going wherever he feels like, either the sax or the piano. That's what I mean when I say it feels random. There's no connection between the bass and the main instrument, it's just sitting there being repetitive.
Yes maybe I know nothing about theory but this is how it feels like to me and I think anyone giving a honest assessment can understand this.
all based on feels
Ornette Coleman said:
"Music is for our feelings."
So it's ok that you keep mentioning, talking about how important it 'feels' to you when you listen to a piece/recording of music.
One thing to remember about most modern jazz, particularly bebop and (so-called 1950s/60s) post-bop: It follows a prescribed structure.
In "Strode Rode" and all other bop tunes or jazz standards of this genre, the essential structure is
1. State the melody (by the leader on horn or piano)
2. several bars of an instrumental solo, which follows and stays within the *chord structure* foundation of the melody, but does not adhere to the note pattern of the song's melody itself
3. Bridge (if the song/composition happens to have one)
4. instrumental solo (as above)
5. Return to melody again for final statement/finish of the song
Sometimes at the end of these bop tunes and small group ensembles playing them, the drummer will have a 'trading fours' (meaning that the drummer shares four bars with another instrumentalist, back-and-forth) segment near the end of the song.
Does that help?
bass and the main instrument
As mentioned above, the bop and post-bop music is founded upon bass and drums. Rhythm is the basis of bebop, the bass player and drummer drive the group, the song, and the sound. They are the foundation, like the foundation of a house, in this music. It was the same for the preceding 1930s-era swing jazz music: bassist and drummer were the foundation for the swing orchestra. Piano player is also considered the 'third' part of the rhythm section in jazz. (Piano trio groups, in the 1940s and later bop era, also became a popular type of ensemble playing instrumental jazz music)
For this kind of music it's only needed that you follow, be familiar with the basic tune, and then the music/musicians take you to other places (the improvised solos) during the playing of the tune, in specific segments within the song.
You just have a million ways of saying the same thin and never listen to what I said. At least is making an honest attempt to explain the structure to you.
The bass is constantly playing interesting melodies. It's not repetitive, quite the opposite, it never repeats. And the sax and piano are not "going all over the place," these are incredibly melodic and inventive solos.
Literally every player on strode rode is incredible. Sorry if you can't see that.
And for what it's worth - I like progressive metal. So this isn't a case of me saying jazz is better than your type of music or anything like that. I can understand both. The progressive metal is highly influenced by jazz - actually its almost jazz fusion.
But there's no need to feel bad for not "getting" bebop jazz. It's not easy to understand. Maybe try something a bit easier first lol. But at the same time, you have to realize there's a lot you don't know about music as is plain to see.
One of my favorite bh songs is this one youtube.com
I find this song a million times more interesting than strode rode and would never describe it as random (like I will keep doing for strode rode). It's not just because it's a guitar instead of a sax, there's much more harmony here. I don't know how to describe it so I give up. I can't find better words than structure/harmony so whatever. If you can't hear the difference then so be it. But if you can find an explanation as to why one resonates with me and the other doesn't go ahead. None of the concepts you describe can be the reason because I'm already familiar and enjoying them in other kind of songs that do things differently.
HNNNN ZOOBADOOBADOOO BADOOO DEEEDOOOO
The bass is constantly playing interesting melodies. It's not repetitive, quite the opposite, it never repeats.
Insane statement. Schizophrenic even. Excluding the intro/outro parts (00:40 onwards) the bass is almost always doing the same thing.
If you can't appreciate Coleman Hawkins rendition of Body and Soul you aren't white
youtu.be
able to understand Bali songs
I recommend that you study some basic musicology—no this is not 'music theory' but rather, you should look at comparative musicology of the musics of the world.
All music, whether western classical (has a highly developed *harmony* and structures/rules therein) or from Bali, or India, has its own long tradition of structure and practice that are followed, along with instrumentation.
Anyway if you take a world musicology course (or read a book about it), you'll be more aware of the basic rudiments and component parts of what music is, how it's made
Harmony
Melody
Rhythm
structure and composition
types of instruments (aerophones, chordophones, idiophones, membranophones) according to their *function* in the music and ensemble
et cetera
Sort of like understanding the separate building materials used to construct a house. That you live in
After getting a handle on this overall aspect, some of these 'structures' that you have a hard time getting to understand or 'feel' properly, might make more sense or become discernable to you.
the bass
What you're missing is that the bass player, and also the drummer (in his way), while the two of them are yes in unison propelling the song along in 4/4 time steadily, are also doing minor variations in either the rhythm notation or the chordal/melodic line of the song, even though they closely adhere to it. These subtle minor improvisations by both the bassist and drummer through the song allow the rhythm section to 'breathe' naturally and not sound rigid or stiff. They're still propelling the song and their quartet ensemble at a swift steady velocity, just with gentle twists, swells and 'breathing' inside of that steady beat. Also pay attention to how the bassist & drummer interact with each other, they support, cajole and encourage, even spar with each other during the tune.
(all of these jazz tunes are capable of being re-listened to, in this manner through these minor improvised variations. It's akin to watching a well made motion picture, again, multiple times and each time viewed you pay particular attention to different characters or aspects of the film's plot development, and seeing it differently or 'new' each time)
Listen closely. It's there throughout the piece
if you can find an explanation as to why one resonates with me and the other doesn't go ahead
You really need people to spoonfeed you, don't you?
"Explain why I don't like this"
The irony is that the music you are linking is quite niche and inaccessible. So why don't we turn it on its head. Why do you think so few people like progressive metal?
youtu.be
If that's too "chaotic", try
youtu.be
Very good ones brazilanon
(intro examples for newbs)
The bass never repeats, not even close. Do you think it's "always doing the same thing" because it's always playing quarter notes(minus embellishments)? They're different notes you mongoloid.
Also this (probably too weird for you)
youtu.be
Or this (too Jamaican, more reggaeish than jazz)
youtu.be