TOTAL EURO ARYAN SUPREMACY CONFIRMED!!!
AMERICANS CAN'T EVEN MAKE GOOD GUNS ANYMORE
M-16 works fine.
giving a soldier a rifle in 2025 is like giving a soldier and bayonet in 1915.
pointless.
but what exactly is wrong with them?
muh drones
people still fight in trenches and shoot at each other my guy
bayonets have points though that’s the entire point
Shouldn’t they be asking the NCOs instead
Only meaningful complaints are that it is too heavy and you're left with less ammo than if you were using an M4. Which is pretty stupid because it doesn't matter how much ammo you have if you can't shoot through the kind of body armor that is now super common place.
The M16 had a shotgun breaching attachment . They could have had some unlucky zogbots test its capabilities against drones.
I want to suck on a modern service rifle belonging to a white man hahaha
isn't sig sauer a german company
Is the m4 really adequate? Heard that due to its barrel length it renders the tiny 556 useless.
Ah I see so it's just a self important captain being a Anon Babbleommando
Yes one with quite a reputation, I think thats the joke
random officer says something
Now post the people saying it's good. You won't, of course. You've got a narrative to push, don't you wumao?
Whatever happened to the xm8?
They should just go back to the m16a1 but with a 1/7 twist and the a2 handguard.
The Sig rifle is dogshit
M4 is superior is almost every way
They need to penetrate body armor now, they must update rifle. If this one sucks, they still need another. The Nato round no longer good.
The upgrade it provided over the M4 was so slim, the cost of actually switching over to it was far too large to be justified.
Except it's only good on poor people.
Weak bait is weak
This might trigger a k tard but they have been contained in their "Hohols are winning" hugbox
We're witnessing the new M14 fiasco in real time
The new munition still requires tungsten core penetrators
Aka
Exact same thing as what every other caliber needs
Doesn't barrel length affect velocity?
Yes, but so does ballistic coefficient, bullet weight, and type of powder used
M855A1 is designed with that barrel length in mind
Heavier weight 77gr MK262 does well in short barrel rifles due to the amount of MASS coupled with the relatively high velocities it can achieve fired from shorter barrels. It will destabilize faster over distance though
The new meta is arty strikes and drone swarms. Infrantry engagements will be mgs to pin down the opps and hand to hand in the trenches. Chink made Cold Steel blades will reign supreme.
m14 is too big and heavy
Yes, the optimal barrel length for 5.56 is 20". The m4 is 14". We need to go back to the full length barrel since we're not going to do door kicking missions in a peer vs peer fight.
Sig sauer in the US hasn’t been German since the early 2000’s, lots of parts now come from an Indian MIM company and QC has tanked. Outside of retarded coonsomers and boomer retards, sig sauer is known as a meh company and it is obvious that the only reason they were adopted was due to lobbying and graft. Typical corrupt military stuff, the exact same situation happens all the time in military procurement and R&D.
sig is owned by a jew and their quality is so bad that they're the greatest threat to American law enforcement.
Why use American zogbots when we have a SMO and millions of bodies to test with? Be sure to thank every Ukraine flag for spending their lives to advance our military.
The barrels are burning themselves out within 2k rounds, parts breakages are obscene because lol 80k PSI cartridge, and said cartridge can't even penetrate body armor better than 5.56 unless you're using special, tungsten cored ammo. Tungsten cored ammo, that is penetrating the same body armor that 5.56 and 7.62 tungsten core ammo was already penetrating. It also, like the M17 and M18 pistols from SIG that the military adopted, has quality control issues. The optic that is supposed to be a game changer it's issued with, chews through batteries and is fragile. It's a piece of shit and is rightfully called the M14 2.0.
No cartridge that is reasonable for an infantryman's rifle is going to penetrate the kind of plates people can get nowadays. This would be like people in the late middle ages trying to carry around giant anime weapons to punch through the center of breastplates instead of just stabbing niggers in the gaps.
TOTAL EURO ARYAN SUPREMACY CONFIRMED!!!
They all use AR-15 or AR-18 derivatives though? Even the British. The L85 is a bullpup AR-18 but bad.
Eugene Stoner was really ahead of his time.
Thats why I said h2h is going to be the new meta. Tackle a guy and stab your chink forged mild steel dirk in his armpit.
The XM8 was scrapped two decades ago, so why is it XM7 now?
That's what you get for fucking FN over TWICE
and finland just decided to start dropping rk62 to nato compatible stuff :D
Body armor is a joke you’re retarded why would you need to shoot through a plate that only covers 10% of the body
So just give everyone a fucking machine gun, problem solved.
They said the exact same thing about the M16
I doubt it will come to that. Modern armor is even less suited for covering joints and limbs than medieval armor was. People will just have to learn to shoot shoulders and hips. Also drones and artillery.
We can just adopt AR-10's and sling M80a1 through them.
It's not going to penetrate the armor on the first go but it will devastate it and drop your ass.
Mark Miley is just a communist faggot who wanted to kill the M4 to literally make history.
this is the rifle
It’s a cool rifle system, paired with the even cooler lmg that comes with it I’m sure it would be fine in European environments. Same as m14 but these aren’t gonna be be humping through the jungle with firefights at less than 100 yards every time.
Isn't Sig German, or Austrian?
kek
Eugene Stoner laughing from the grave
Trent said his research has shown that soldiers equipped with the XM7 in a live-fire exercise quickly run out of ammunition because its magazine only holds 20 rounds.
gee whiz, only with the most advanced super computers could you have predicted that 20 is less than 30
Ergonomics are ass. More so with the LMG. Only way to shoot it while standing is with the stock collapsed all the way in so you ended up with durr hurr arms since the length of pull is nonexistent and all the weight is out in front.
M60 was peak machine gun ergos. We should go back and adopt the M60e6 since all the problems with the M60 has been fixed since e4.
The bullets are bigger and penetrate denser armor. That's why it's 20, not 30. It's also heavier.
I don't know about everyone. But when the main justification for this rifle is US troops being outranged by the Taliban and their PKMs I don't see why copying them wasn't the first solution.
you think you sound smart/cool but you actually sound gay/retarded
The lmg is like 7 pounds lighter, fires a pissmissle of a bullet, has that fancy scope, and who gives a fuck about firing standing up. It is the best part of this deal.
Russians guns are still the goat, thats why theyre banned for import. Would put out these kike US gun manufacturers out of business, enjoy your shitty broken AR platform that costs $50,000,000,000,000 dollars
Im not seeing how they went from that as justification to adopting this new system. Isnt the doctrine they used to pin down with rifles and then the lmgs got most of the kills? If thats the caee why thr need for heaviet ammo on the rifle.
No. M16A1 is fine.
Sig is a European company, retard.
no
people
Where? Actual humans fight with technology now.
This post right here! This is the most concise understanding of the SIG small arms contract. This was obviously a massive kickback/embezzlement scam contract and it's now coming to light.
You're not always going to be in the situation where you can take your time to lay down and return fire. You might find yourself crouched or standing needing to shoot back.
It's hard to do it when you're forced to do it with retard arms and all the weight is in a weird location.
The M60e6's weight is fine since it only weighs a couple pounds more than a 249.
We already produce the M80a1 so you can link those up and fire them out of the M60 already achieving 2900FPS out of a 16 inch barrel without the need of running the gun out of a barrel destroying 80k psi. It's standard 60k psi
Sig USA sucks
Whoa, color me shocked.
Also, of course the gun sucks. It's designed for threats that basically don't exist outside of the US and maybe Germany, France and China.
the intro:
While it has some impressive terminal ballistic potential, the adoption of the XM7 represents a significant downgrade to the ability of Soldiers to fight and win the next peer on peer war. From World War I to the battlefields of the Russia-Ukraine War, a huge majority of infantry engagements have occurred within 300 meters. The lesson learned in blood from these conflicts is that fire superiority--not long range, aimed fire--is what wins firefights. This monograph seeks to re-examine the lessons of the past in combination with unclassified technical and tactical data to make a compelling argument against the continued adoption of the XM7. It will also examine the programs which led to the creation of the XM7, reports from units currently equipped with the XM7, and potential alternatives for consideration.
the report:
mediafire.com
the chat:
yewtu.be
Sig
American
Our government hates Eugene Stoner now despite getting Eurofaggots to make bastardized and terribly performing versions of his guns for them.
One of his last brain babies was an actual Light Machine Gun.
youtube.com
Yes, did he stutter? Sig USA is so junk it might as well be wholly separate and American.
Sig was bought by Jews about a decade back. Their quality suddenly dropped and their government sales magically increased.
Those all seem like non issues, just pull the stock out, that is what it’s there for. I haven’t heard any issues out of the 250 barrels, just the one report from OP of the rifle having “scores” in it after 2k even though both the army and sig said 10k in testing.
sit this one out, fortnite. you are retarded
Suppression is a fundamental principle of combat as fought by humans using guns. If guns go away or humans go away suppression probably will to, but until then, the side which doesn't use it loses.
Pretty normal comment, it's how you get new equipment. You make up reasons that the current stuff doesn't work well enough and then money is spent to make new weapons. This officer probably has profit motives from some manufacturer who would compete in the trials.
Ergonomics are as
this guy must have used the guns
It was just a corpo money grab through uncapped R&D invoices that are vaguely catalogued between several friends at the companies involved on the Army's payroll.
They have 0 incentive to change from the AR/M series rifles because if they REALLY wanted that round they'd set up tooling to do it in the platform they already have and spend 1/4 the cost than buying something that doesn't work worth a fuck for times when they absolutely need it to work.
All this proved is they're gonna keep issuing DMRs and SAWs with light infantry and rain piss down instead of accuratizing every single small arm.
Those all seem like non issues, just pull the stock out
And now you're stuck only using it on the prone. You can't really get your left hand beyond the nut sack and the weight imbalance is even worse due to leverage.
How do we know the Army officer is not full of shit and it actually is a better rifle?
If you read the test results the XM7 with match ammo is less accurate than an M4 with standard ammo.
6MOA vs 2MOA.
nice cope
Sig Sauer is Swiss.
Probably the same issue that occured diring testing. The MCX Spear preformed the worst among it's rivals, Sig was only chosen because the GPMG they trialed was the most popular, and because they probably payed off the judges.
designed by SIG Sauer
German (Formerly Swiss)
any barrel length 12.5 and up has negligible difference in terminal velocity with 5.56, fucking noguns faggot.
also there’s not just one barrel length.
Only because they can't afford drones.
if you can't shoot through the kind of body armor that is now super common place.
Pretty much all assault rifles can penetrate ceramic plates. If you're relying on ceramic plates making you a walking tank you're retarded. AR caliber is strong enough to go through a wall of sandbags. "Modern Armor" is not bullet-proof tier in war. Its "it might save your life"-tier.
Idk the ownership but the jewish ceo Ron Cohen previously ran Kimber straight through the ground cutting corners and putting out garbage pistols and they never really recovered. I hear people say they're better now but I wouldn't risk it.
my money is usually always on the guy who could die if a device is sub standard
Just looked through some independent test logs and even with the most expensive ammunition it just barely beat out milspec M4s with shot out barrels, had more recoil and was not as predictable or easy to shoot quickly.
Especially when the cost per unit on them is extremely high they could have done better but chose not to which is fucking hilarious it's literally a blatant jewing if there ever was one
this is the most retarded post on pol
level 4 plates, which are way cheaper now and more available, can completely stop 5.56 and 5.45 which are the most commonly use rounds.
XM7's 6.8 goes straight through them.
The whole point of 6.8 is lethality against body armour.
Except it isn't effective against armor without the tungsten penetrators that already work with other cartridges but we want to avoid relying on because we have no tungsten.
we have plenty of tungsten, using them for small arms is a waste though
can completely stop 5.56 and 5.45
Can. 1-2 of them. Standard soldier two-taps, in a heat of battle burst fires. It is crystal clear you have never served in the army and you're some fat faggot in your mothers basement. If body armors would become strong enough to brush off AR rifles, every nation on Earth would be updating their rifles with way higher calibers right now.
every nation on earth can't afford to do that you retard
Pretty much all assault rifles can penetrate ceramic plates.
LOL no. Level 4 ceramic plates are rated to stop armor piercing .30-06 M2 rounds at 15 yards, which is spicier than anything coming out of any assault rifle. Some of the more modern high tech 7.62x51 AP rounds might be able to defeat it, but I wouldn't really consider that an assault rifle round. Other than that you would need something like .300 win mag to get through level 4 plates.
The primary justification for wanting a new rifle is the proliferation of Level 4 plates in the hands of foreign forces (and American civilians).
Pretty much all of the problems they are having with the XM7 is precisely because they tried to make an assault rifle that fires a round that can penetrate level 4 armor.
No. The idea is trying to get a first shot pass through. It can't do that since a standard 6.8 projectile has less energy than .308.
Body armor isn't 1 solid hunk of material. It's usually a ceramic that breaks apart upon impact. You can just litter the guy with regular 5.56 ammo and eventually get though though if you're lighting them up like that you probably already raped their lower body and got some shots on their head. Yea, their lungs and heart are safe but their belly and groin are destroyed.
can't afford
You can buy higher caliber hunting rifles for civilian use. I accept your concession, tranny.
rifles
as your main infantry weapon
kek retard
Even level THREE plates are rated to stop 6 rounds of 7.62x51mm NATO FMJ M80.
You are a complete LARPer faggot if you think soldiers in the heat of battle are dumping mags and holding center mass on a 10x12 target in the heat of battle.
IVAN CHESNOKOV AGREES
puts on a 10" by 12" armor plate
maybe has a second one on back depending on configuration
"Yeah I'm basically bulletproof"
lol. Lmao even
LOL no. Level 4 ceramic plates are rated to stop armor piercing .30-06 M2 rounds at 15 yards,
And in battle conditions they're unreliable on that front. Even steel armor is not complete protection from bullets, its always an extra life insurance to have it but it is not a guarantee in actual battle conditions. Again every soldier is taught to two-tap, in real battles soldiers have the habit to shoot way more bullets than just the two-tap. Two bullets one after another in same area and your ceramic plate just might save you from the first one but not the next 4-5 ones.
There is no fully effective body armor for AR calibers or higher. The best protection soldiers still have is to try and be as small a target as possible.
This. The m16-m4-ar15 works fucking fine to 600m. Also all of the new army sig pistols are not drop safe.
The primary justification for wanting a new rifle is the proliferation of Level 4 plates in the hands of American civilians
tap tap tap
no they are not, once they take one round they are meant to be replaced. if they take more than that it's just a bonus
This
The SADF and Recces of South Africa didn't even wear armor 95% of the time because they valued mobility more
There's not much incentive to make up bullshit reasons it sucks, there's plenty of incentive make up bullshit reasons to adopt a new gun
if you think soldiers in the heat of battle are dumping mags and holding center mass on a 10x12 target in the heat of battle.
And you have never, EVER been in a single gunfight before. Or army for that matter. I served because of mandatory draft. Where did you serve again? In a heat of battle soldiers tend to forget the two-tap rule and start firing in longer bursts, especially if the target didn't drop immediatly.
The M4 is perfect
In niche and highly scientific analysis of modern armor penetration. A smaller bore is better than a larger bore that is faster. .223 is on video defeating level 4 plates from 15 yards from a 16" barrel when using m995 ap4 tungsten core.
No 6.8 will pen level 4 without a tungsten core.
This is why the army's requirement was laughed off as a meme back when it was announced.
Americans have been making retarded Frankenstein guns for so long it's all they know how to do now.
That's like a few shots and you're probably only hitting the drone at a range where it doesn't help anymore. Future infantry squads will just have a shotgun man attached, like they might have a machine gunner or a marksman.
Which is really what the Army/Marines should be working out; a new service shotgun for anti-drone. Who needs a new marksman rifle (essentially what this is) when you're going to be stuck using shotgun technology that's essentially unchanged from the first World War?
They tried shotguns in ukraine, it failed against the drones due to range
Sig Sauer is American? Is it Gmbh or AG?
American civilians are gun and ballistics autists like no other people on this Earth. You are legally allowed to make your own tungsten core ammunition at home, and there are autists that have posted them making tungsten core ammo in their garages on here. All you need to kill level 4 plates is a 30 gr tungsten penetrator in a 60gr .223 with a muzzle velocity of at least 2,850 fps. If you want to defeat it at 100 yards, use a 40-50 gr penetrator in a 100-110 gr .308 with a muzzle velocity of roughly 2,800 fps.
Could have chosen a modernized battle tested M14, FN FAL, G3, or AR10
No, instead they choose an entirely new non-battle tested rifle that probably costs more to produce and has all the problems to work out
Obviously there were palms greased for the adoption of the XM7.
The thing is, if all they did was upgrade the ammo and not the gun, they couldn't spend all this money;
The barrels are burning themselves out within 2k rounds, parts breakages are obscene because lol 80k PSI cartridge
This is all on purpose to make sure SIG gets to make a lot of the shit and have the government buy it with infinity government dollars. If arms production were state-owned they'd just start making tungsten 5.56 and keep all the equipment they already have that they know works well. But because it's private and the arms contract process creates an avenue for shoveling infinity public dollars into private wallets, they always come up with the most expensive and maintenance-heavy option.
It is a disease.
No one ever said armor plates makes you bulletproof. Their purpose is to decrease the chances of direct bullet wounds to the heart, lung, and major blood vessels of the chest because those kinds of wounds are significantly more likely to be fatal and untreatable compared to wounds to the extremities.
who allowed this substandardberg riflewitz, everybaum, stein?
go ahead, ill wait.
The thing is, if all they did was upgrade the ammo and not the gun, they couldn't spend all this money;
Yep, that's all army procurement is about now, bloat maxxing with subpar equipment and memey requirements. It was a huge meme back when they announced the new competition for it. The sig pistols were also a meme because none of them are drop safe and to this day all of the sig 320s in service are not drop safe. Even the cope kit 320s are still not entirely drop safe.
Their purpose is to decrease the chances of direct bullet wounds to the heart, lung, and major blood vessels of the chest because those kinds of wounds are significantly more likely to be fatal and untreatable compared to wounds to the extremities.
Or just chest area in general. Breaking the ribs or puncturing a lung still pretty much takes out someone from a fight. Ironically best case scenario in a combat is to not directly kill a soldier, but to wound him enough that he needs to be carried by 2 of his friends. That removes 3 soldiers from the fight instead of just 1. Most armies do wear shrapnel vests.
Infantry hated the M14 back in the day, it will never get over that stigma. The FAL is STUPID heavy. G3 is over engineered to hell and back. Like everything German.
They could simply take the M4 platform they have now and adopt a new cartridge for it, but 5.56 is light and excels at close and mid ranges.
level 4 plates
More bullets are cheaper than a new gun design, manufacturing, and distribution.
The two piece steel and brass cartridge seems unnecessarily complex and expensive.
It's just a joke, Even the Russians use rails and laserpointer and all that stuff
Learning to shoot for the thighs/legs, arms, face, etc, might be the trick. But I think probably we're just going to start hitting everyone with explosives, whether that's drones or small ones fired out of guns.
Stop moving the goalposts. You started by saying that pretty much any assault rifle round could penetrate plates. Because you don't actually know shit about fuck but decided to confidently post your false assumptions on the internet anyway.
You got called out on it by people who do know what they are talking about, but instead of just taking the L, you just doubled down with this bullshit about soldiers in the heat of battle magdumping 6-7 rounds into the same hole or how body armor isn't effective because it doesn't make you completely invulnerable to anything.
current weapons systems had similar critique
Sounds like a winner.
Behold the latest Euro gun, puts those Americhud guns to shame!
Yes, that was part of the reasoning for 5.56 IIRC; sure it's smaller but it can kill and in practice most of the shots not only won't hit, but won't be intended to hit, they'll be intended to just force the enemy to stay behind whatever cover he has. So it's more important to have a lot of shots than powerful shots.
But the Pentagon is fighting the last war and thinking about countersniping Taliban dudes that we already handed the country over to.
Isnt that what thr xm8 system was supposed to have? Meme frag rounds.
Heavier gun with 20 rounds
Kek. Just give them AK-47s if you want a larger round. That's a really good rifle too.
You started by saying that pretty much any assault rifle round could penetrate plates
Read again, nigger. I said pretty much any assault rifle could penetrate plates: There is no reliable armor for AR caliber rifles yet. Modern battles are not going to have those goofy video game slow walking tanks anytime soon. If that would ever become a case, armies around the world would up the caliber pretty quickly. All the drone shit going on in Ukraine is changing army drills and tactics all over the world right now.
Unless the Army issued you your opinion is means nothing.
Don't care. The Pentagon will never call this fucker up and ask him how to win a war. 80-90% of the kills in Ukraine come from artillery and rockets. Equipping a few thousand elites like Rangers and SEALs with whatever battle rifle they want is way cheaper hope they like M 16's.
Hopefully Trump audits the Pentagon and is willing to freeze all new projects until done to get it started.
Like this nigger officer ever won a war. Shoot urself for israel k thks. Why does PFC know how to do your job?
get a bunch of cheap drones
get a redneck gunsmith (there's got to be plenty)
tell him to invent a shotgun shell capable of downing drones at whatever range is necessary
In 6 months you've got your new weapon at a fraction of a fraction of the cost and time it would've taken the military.
The military is too slow to adapt, when will people get it that they need to rely on the maverick guys with a sharp mind and a knack for pushing boundaries? Look at drones themselves. It wasn't the Ukrainian military that came up with the idea, it was small units of individual men some of which weren't even soldiers. If it wasn't for them the military would still be using million dollar drones.
Americans, real Americans, could come up with an anti drone weapon in months. But no, better give a billion dollars to Sig Sauer so that they can spend it all on research to tell you they're gonna need another billion because results were inconclusive.
Which is pretty stupid because it doesn't matter how much ammo you have if you can't shoot through the kind of body armor that is now super common place.
what is suppression
I hate you.
There is no reliable armor for AR caliber rifles yet.
You are 100% wrong. Level 4 armor stops 556. The point is also to have more penetration at long distance. Which is why the fancy computer scope exists. You are a nigger
I wonder if small missiles would be effective for anti-drone defense? Shotguns would require letting them get pretty close and there would be a lot of room for fucking up and getting killed. It's probably the best defense a civilian could manage but surely militaries can do better.
Add ten boolit and tell grunt to go fuck himself when he complains about weight.
Just give every soldier a rocket launcher.
Anon, sig is made by jews and indians.
terribly performing versions of his guns
Damn, does the C7/C8 rifle series suck ass? I thought it was supposed to be high quality.
I think IEDs will be more popular. They're easier to make and arguably more effective. And at the point that any of this matters legality will be a non-issue.
The answer is 20mm auto cannons with proximity fuse that shoots them down before you can see or hear them
We have that, it's called birdshot. Requires the obligatory drum mag, however. Could pull the AA12 out of mothball for it and it wouldn't even be that difficult.
random officer has an opinion
k
I knew it was going to be a pile of shit. There's no point in moving beyond the M16.
Yeah when the sig not being drop safe happened I knew all the new gen guns would suck.
no they are not,
Yes, they are. The NIJ testing requires the plates to withstand 6 non-touching hits without failure.
once they take one round they are meant to be replaced
Yes, of course. But that doesn't mean that as soon as it takes any hits that it completely stops being effective at all.
If so it would've been a smarter adoption, maybe they could've adapted it to have flak-like rounds to use against drones.
And the 5 people with WW2 milsurp, sandals, AKs, and no plates will defeat that highly equipped/trained solder. Every time.
works fucking fine to 600m
It was worthless in the Afghani mountains. They deployed m14s on like week 2. 600m with 556 is shit if there's wind
This just needs a nice titty delivery system, all problems solved (except weight, npm)
Wait it's legal?? Source? It's only banned for sale, not personal manufacturing?
AKs are great but ARs have proliferated so many new cartridges in the US since the 60s that every possible wildcat for every possible need already exists. Pic related can fit into a STANAG AR15 with just a new bolt. You will lose mag capacity however with STANAGs. There's also the 6mm-.223 or 6mmx45 which is capable of sending an 80-87 gr bullet to 900-1000 yards with its entire flight to that distance being supersonic, specifically when using a specific civilian powder and there is no loss in capacity in STANAGs either. The better than 7.62x39mm AR15 cartridge is the .300 HAMR.
You are 100% wrong.
Modern soldiers can brush off bullets like flies and walk around in the open thanks to their new ceramic plates!
If the Level 4 armor makes you brush off AR fire, why are soldiers still digging holes on the ground or checking every single corner in urban combat? Just leisurely walk to the enemy, jam the barrel up his nose and pull the trigger.
I checked. It's not legal to make your own AP ammo.
.223 only lacks in barrier penetration beyond 300 yards. For every other use, including suppressing fire to 600m, it is perfectly fine. It is also fine as a PDW round.
I've seen a few videos of drones being taken down with shotguns. Little proximity drones without missiles would be no problem for anybody who has ever shot skeet
Modern soldiers can brush off bullets like flies
That's not the point. The point is to penetrate the armor to kill the soldier. They are not killed if the bullet is stopped. They are incapacitated but they will be taken away to recover. That is the entire point of body armor. I'm not sure what information it is that you cannot process
That's what happen when you have german engineers and american workers.
What a shit show.
Have you seen the new sniper rifle ? A total disaster too.
They need to go back to a .308 and if fighting an opponent with body armor, they need to use steel core ammo. Simple as.
They want to penetrate barriers at 600 years. The entire point of this program is to outrange everyone else
Because armor doesn't make you invincible. It's only purpose is to protect your heart and lungs so you can get medical help.
Well no, the Taliban barely did any damage to US troops in fire fights. Problem was the entire rhem hiding in hills and the Afghans keeling over like wet paper towel.
thank you resident Anon Babblespook-autist
It is, you cannot buy AP ammo or premade cores. You can legally however manufacture your own AP ammo from raw materials and there are anons who have posted their work. Pic related is homemade steel core AP. But there are guys on here that have also posted homemade tungsten core AP.
They are incapacitated but they will be taken away to recover.
How are they incapacitated if the armor stops the bullets reliably like you claim?
Yes. Every major manufacturer has a US operation. Sig US is of notably lower quality than the Swiss made products and it's run by a yid
Lasers that melt the drone can be hooked up to a smart phone app for targeting and powered from car battery. They fired a laser from a ship so a condensed version that can melt plastic at 300 yards would do it. The tech is already out there at this point.
drones are there in support of infantry. just like airplanes or tanks or artillery or any other fancy stuff. its all just there for the infantry, without men in the muck its all worthless. someday we will have teleporters and orbital drop robots but we will still need the brute force of men in the muck
.308 win already does that. The meme requirement they stated was they wanted to pen armor, but even their 80k psi 6.8 will *not* penetrate lvl 4 at any distance without a tungsten core. Meaning the entire requirement was BS that could have already been met with different ammo.
this guy is unironically right
getting into a rifle fight as a soldier means it's over for you at some point
if you've gotten yourself into shooting at another monkey you're dead already
you got convinced that one person makes a difference in the games played nowadays, just like you got convinced paying taxes is good for you
the only time being within rifle range means anything is defending your own home and again, that means it's probably over
the last time being within rifle range was meaningful was napoleon and up to 1860s~ when soldiering meant gambling with your other lost men that only 15% of you might die and whoever dies was meant to and whoever lives was meant to loot gold spoons
now there is no loot except personal items, and the life gambling is with 75% instant mutilation or kill from remote bombs of every unstoppable velocity
there isn't even the fair contest of WW2 that no one except you was watching, now there's always a drone eye somewhere
Broken ribs or sternum. Can cause heart to stop if in right place. All of that energy goes somewhere and the plates deform when shot.
Because armor doesn't make you invincible.
But the dumb burger niggers claim that the US new rifle is discontinued because the armor makes soldiers invincible. If the gun still incapacitates the target, then the gun would still be useful. And if the armor only barely saves your life, then thats not a fucking reliable armor now is it?
The body armor they’re worried about penetrating is owned by Americans.
They are incapacitated
That's all you really need. And getting shot in the thigh with a rifle round is still pretty lethal.
wasn't the inability to hit far enough in open countries like afghanistan a big point too?
Broken ribs or sternum.
The armor can make certain calibers completely harmless yet you break bones? Do you realize how retarded you sound?
Save, that it's not.
Important point, that.
Nvm, I guess titties wouldn't help..
I think a small missile is always going to cost too much compared to bit of powder, a wad and some pellets.
The idea is to have fewer troops cover more area. 6.8 has better range and wind deflection than 7.62. the armor penetration was an original ask that ended up not being that important.
Americans have never been able to make firearms.
Do you guys not remember the absolute disaster that was that M16?
You guys literally lost Vietnam because your rifles were so shit it demoralised your entire country.
But clearing buildings and convoy protection. I got bayonet training but my friend who enlisted a couple years said they swapped it out with helicopter rides.
Clearing buildings will always be a thing and so will infantry in a trench. They just don't need rifles that blind because of the blue steel they are made up shines in the sun on parade day.
too big for manlets
getting into a rifle fight as a soldier means it's over for you
for you, maybe
you got convinced that one person makes a difference
hey retard thats not the reason we still need infantry no one but you mentioned that dumb idea
the only time being within rifle range means anything is defending your own home
all the drones in the world cant do the job of infantry, which is why infantry still means a lot and western military are growing concerned about recruitment numbers
fair contest of WW2
no one except you was watching
kek dont talk about things you dont know about
to achieve it's goal of longer range armor pen, it has to run a very hot cartridge, as a result, it ends up wearing the gun down very rapidly due to higher than normal pressure, and crap sig parts
don't look at the early life section of the sig ceo who uses indian labor btw... every single time
TOTAL EURO ARYAN SUPREMACY CONFIRMED!!!
ironically, yes, because the xm8(dressed up g36) debuted decades prior and is still the base for a superior teutonic weapon in the hk433
btw, HK won't sell to israel because they designated them a terrorist state
It's more total SIG death
can make certain calibers completely harmless
Whomever said this doesn't know what they're talking about. 9mm with plates hurts and can break shit.
Heavy, and has quality control issues
I'm not going into specific details because it is none of your business, but I have served my country and was shooting at and being shot at by people in a foreign country while you were LARPing and shooting blanks with the other conscripts innawoods.
I'm not saying that soldiers don't fire in longer bursts during battle, I'm saying that they don't accurately fire longer bursts into tight groups to try to defeat the armor plates of someone shooting at them. Most of it is suppressive fire, which you want to be dispersed over a larger area.
I have served my country
ah yes, keeping America safe from rinkydink tribals on the other side of the ocean. no doubt they were going to attack any minute. dont kid yourself zogbot kek
There's better ammunition for .308 win that does everything they want, except for the meme armor requirement. Civilian .308 win can precisely pen cement block walls with an accuracy circle of a jug of milk at 600-800 yards. All of their ballistic requirements were memes. An SR 25 with civilian made ammo is already capable of everything they want besides there armor meme. And most infantry men are not sharp shooters anyway so any tiny ballistics advantage is wasted on them in the field.
99% of conflicts are a 1:1 meat grinder unless there is a special case like retarded Africans getting BTFO 5:5000.
It's far worse than the m14, basically everything SIG touched in the past 2 decades has been garbage. Their only shining achievement is popularizing FCU for pistols, and even then they just copied Styer for the design.
M16 was an ammo issue mostly, and secondly not teaching proper maintenance to troops.
Marines were using original M16s at the beginning of GWOT and they performed just fine as long as it was within 300m.
Your SA80 is an absolute embarrassment, though. It's the "Aug we have at home" and it's a massive piece of shit. You all should have swallowed your pride and just bought Austrian.
Organized armies cannot fight guerilla insurgencies. Asstmetric warfare goes against everything they are designed to fight.
most infantry men are not sharp shooters
they all are with the scopes. Even retarded beaner women can outshoot your average fudd.
What's he coping with? He acknowledges US Sig Sauer is shite and has little ties to Germany nowadays. It's the opposite of cope, he's full on acknowledging the shortcomings and not even blaming doucheland
LARP detected, any soldier who has served in the field would say you'd be fucking retarded to rely on your armor to save you in a real combat situation. The whole reason soldiers are taught to make themselves as small targets as possible is because thats the only real protection you have against gunfire. Helmets aren't designed to protect from bullets either, they're primarily protecting you from shrapnel. They might stop a bullet if you're lucky but are you ready to push your luck and keep your head out in the open for everyone to aim? Fuck off, thats civilian LARPer talking.
One ATACMs missile in the 90's cost 125 000 dollars a piece. They're more expensive today. I don't think anyone is going to waste expensive missiles shooting 400-500 dollar drones from the sky. Ironically the main reason why british are experimenting with AA laser cannons is because missiles are so expensive that even sci-fi guns are more feasible.
*new scopes
lots of parts now come from an Indian MIM company
Oh. Then it all makes sense.
It uses 6.8 rounds in an attempt to counter improved body armour. It comes with a suppressor as standard.
If you remove the scopes from an SR-25 or M110 and their new wunderrifle they still perform the same.
youtu.be
This is .300 HAMR at 500-700 yards. .308 win massively outperforms this.
Don't they give Marines bayonets? I believe they use them in the war in Iraq.
Also never mind what they do at the military, bayonets are practical for civilians especially in a survival environment in a multiracial country.
Barrel length matters when mechanized.
We should be using AUGs, not joking.
But yeah, 55gr out of a 20" 1/12 twist barrel is devastating
AMERICANS CAN'T EVEN MAKE GOOD GUNS ANYMORE
The rifle is a pretty good design; but the cartridge itself is retarded. Switching everyone over to a full power battle rifle cartridge didn't work with the M14 back in the 1950s and the army wasn't filled with women, queers and midgets back then.
They should have introduced a beefed up version of 7.62 NATO for the XM7 and deployed them as Marksman rifles while keeping 5.56 or possibly .300 blackout as a dedicated carbine round.
TOTAL EURO ARYAN SUPREMACY CONFIRMED!!!
Were you under the impression that Sig Sauer is an American company?
Modern soldiers can brush off bullets like flies and walk around in the open thanks to their new ceramic plates!
Strawman. No one in this thread has made any claim like that or suggested anything like that other than you.
The statement
Level 4 armor stops 556 and every other kind of assault rifle ammo
is NOT the same as
Level 4 makes you brush off assault rifle fire.
HK won't sell to israel because they designated them a terrorist state
I did not know this. If I didn't already have all the guns I need, I'd buy one of theirs.
burning themselves out within 2k rounds
They were originally cited as being able to go 8500. That's a huge delta if true, and worse than 6.5creed
SA80 was shit. But, it happened during peacetime and wasn't a big deal.
The M16 being such a massive failure occurred whilst you guys were in war and literally lead to people getting killed and you guys losing.
I like the XM7. Its equivalent to the BAR vs Thompson argument. Imagine arming every USGI with a thompson..LOL that would be silly. IF theyre all armed with a Thompson you are guaranteed to know what to expect and how to engage. Extra rounds dont mean shit for "continued operations" when youre all pinned to the floor and sitting ducks, because the enemy figured out how to effectively engage you in the evolution of a conflict. No body armor needed. Im alot more scared to engage a squad with at least 2 XM7
you can’t chamber an m4 or AR-10 in anything else
FN is HK without the bullshit. Everybody wants to hate on them, but they're making the best shit right now
No one in this thread has made any claim like that
Yes they have, >"Which is pretty stupid because it doesn't matter how much ammo you have if you can't shoot through the kind of body armor that is now super common place."
why are you pushing yourself into conversations you don't bother reading? Thats nigger behaviour.
Level 4 armor stops 556 and every other kind of assault rifle ammo
is NOT the same as
Level 4 makes you brush off assault rifle fire.
Yes it is. Why are you even arguing against me if you're admitting that ceramic armor is not reliable against ARs in a real combat situation? If the armor can't brush off the bullets and the bullets down you anyway, then its not reliable. Extra protection is never a bad thing but the fact remains all AR calibers still go through body armors all the time.
retarded to rely on your armor to save you in a real combat situation
No one is saying anything like this except you, you stupid retard.
Fuck off, thats civilian LARPer talking.
You can fuck off, Mr. conscript LARPer who thinks soldiers in battle intentionally mag dump into the enemy's body armor to defeat their plates because all of his knowledge about what happens in battle comes from playing COD.
The M16 being such a massive failure
That was literal sabotage. They told soldiers they didn't need to clean them and issued them the wrong ammo. People should have been hanged for it.
Firearms manufacturers are under heavy regulations to where they basically have to open a US wing in order to be competitive. Technically the SIG responsible for the p320/m17 and the XM7 is "American" but in control by the parent company
It's an issue of training. The point of 556 is to shoot a lot, pin down, and call in airstrikes or artillery to take them out. If we're moving back to a BR, they need to learn to take fewer and more accurate shots.
r who thinks soldiers in battle intentionally mag dump into the enemy's body armor to defeat their plates
You've never been in urban combat, ever. If the target doesn't drop from the two-tap, then the most natural response a soldier has is to keep shooting the target. Because you don't know what you hit until it falls down. Niggers like you think people have fucking healthbars on top of their heads.
are service rifles going to be obsoleted by drones?
lmgs
are also firing 556 and suck over 400m. Footmobile is awful with a 240b
SIG USA IS NOT SIG SAUER
THE SUBSIDARY GOT SOLD TO USA IN THE 2000s
DON'T TRY TO LUMP US IN WITH YOUR SHIT
WHEN WE BUILD SHIT IT ACTUALLY WORKS
the german sig sauer produces only for a niche hunting rifle, but of superb quality nevertheless
and the swiss sig asuer produces the SIG 550, also of superb quality
if it's shit it's got produced by SIG USA
the companies don't even have the same name
What are the marines going to do without being able to sit in trenches and trade potshots with the enemy until a Braphog comes to bail them out.
Your retarded just like the soldiers are retarded. This is obviously a shit storm created by the armed forces because the XM7 was never meant to be a standard service weapon. It was always meant to be a weapon for select operations at the front. Hence the name spear as in head of the spear.
It's not meant to be an accurate weapon it's meant to be a fast and heavy penetrator. The trade off is it's a barrel burning machine and needs it's barrel and bolt face completely replaced ever couple of magazines. It's only really meant to go through maybe a couple dozen rounds before it needs a complete overhaul.
This is the problem that the army and military aren't on the up'n'up with. Their too retarded for the grunts to upstand complicated ballistics. They get the guns, thow whatever ammunition they have into them and then complain because "darn thing ain't shoot'n straight".
the majority are within 300m
Until you're in Afghanistan and have to break out the m14s because half of all engagements are beyond 300. You don't get to choose to ignore every long engagement.
It's not meant to be an accurate weapon it's meant to be a fast and heavy penetrator.
Doesn't that go against the whole design philosophy of assault rifles in the first place? If you want close range firepower you go for submachineguns and machine pistols. The whole idea of ARs was born when WW2 designers wanted to combine the accurate rifles and the not so accurate smgs together.
PDWs like the m4-ar15 will never not be useful in military control points and bases. Snipers have proven more useful in ukraine but this is a fraction of a fraction of the combat use, most of the kills are done with drones, mines, artillery, and MANPADs. But even still you want guys with rifles around in general.
youtube.com
Here's an 18" ar10 .308 at 1470 yards. If bubba can do it, anyone can.
Grand thumb has videos of him walking while firing it. Looks easy enough
The AR-10 is the perfect rifle and is American. It is an AR chambered in a fully powered cartridge.
That means a trained marksman can handle it from 1 to 1,000 yards, well beyond the effective range of a typical AR or AK platform rifle.
The cartridge is also powerful enough to pierce Level IV plate armor at closer ranges if an AP is used.
With a thermal scope, this is the perfect rifle for fighting the government.
With a thermal scope, this is the perfect rifle for fighting the government.
Do you know something we dont. Are the ayys the next enemy.
AR caliber is strong enough to go through a wall of sandbags
this is bait
they literally abuse the brand name SIG SAUER here you giant assberger i fucking have 2 of them
they even give you SIG SAUER ducking vinyl stickers to put all over your cars or toolboxes or whatever the fuck with the case it comes in
but the cartridge itself is retarded
Honestly the casing itself is interesting. There is a ton of potential reloading and factory piss hot loads. It’s a retarded cartridge for a main service rifle because 2k round barrel life is objectively shit but for something more specialized or just rifle shooting in general the potential for greatness is there. Check out what Walter has to say about it.
abuse* USE
fucking auto correct
XM = it ain’t got its M number yet. It’s an experimental weapon system retard. Welcome to Anon Babble. While your topic is incorrect, it’s not politically incorrect. Post this shit on Anon Babble you stupid gun larping faggot. Jannie’s do your fucking jobs!
6.8 projectile has less energy than .308.
no
The XM7 spear isn't an assault rifle. It's a battle rifle designed to replace the FN Scar.
You seem like an under age person that thinks armor works like in da cartoons. Maybe you should understand something about what getting shot with body armor is like before you comment
Sig Sauer is Swiss.
It's been a long time it isn't anon.
It's not the 90s anymore.
Marines rarely sit in trenches. Iraq 2.0 was probably the most impressive implementation of deep battle doctrine ever. Marines assault through a town and then the army comes in to mop up.
They only get stopped when stupid shit like being outranged fucks up their plans.
No its not, you need at least 2 stack thick sandbag layer to stop an AR bullet. Bullet goes straight through 1 sandbag thickness.
nigger you don't even have real guns to clap back with your CCP owned cuck government. Fuck off
this.
SIG
schweizer industrie gesellschaft
[swiss industry corporation]
i was wondering the other day when they sold off. wasn't it Walther that bought?
I work in a small town shop and I watched a H&K G3 get sawed in half by our chop saw because the cop that had it was retiring. Sad day. I like the roller delay blocks . Thanks for reading my blog.
M-4 all day btw. Fuck this new graft
We have scopes that auto compensate to shoot drones easier now.
You seem like an under age person that thinks armor works like in da cartoons
I'm not the one making the claim that ceramic armor makes certain AR calibers redundant. It doesn't. No body armor is reliably effective against any AR caliber.
Honestly the casing itself is interesting.
I think the reinforced casing idea is interesting; but I don't know why they didn't just apply it to 7.62 NATO and make a magnum anti armor version of NATO while keeping standard 7.62 for every day use.
Switching over to a 6.8mm is just a big logistical and supply problem that didn't need to happen.
Fuck no it doesn't. There are a million YouTube videos testing this if you need proof.
It's not meant to be an accurate weapon
What the fuck is the point of being able to shoot 1000 yards if you can't hit anything?
Depends if you lay the bags long ways or short ways.
Turn out fighting goat herders at safety distance with modern sight is just a police like mission and real war dont need that kind of shit.
Could just have brought some G3 to do the job of the XM7 against poor goat herder and kept the M4 for real wars, just updating to tungstene core instead of cheaper steel one.
Or go for the 6.5 swedish if you really want good ballistics.
It's made by Sig you 40 IQ nigger. Did you even read your own pic rel? You browns are so fucking obese.
are you talking about m193, m855 greenie, or the enhanced m855 alpha 1 with penetrator
you both are probably right.
6moa is bullshit. The milspec minimum was like 2.6moa for this round. I would be curious of the source because the Pentagon are the only ones getting the actual military rounds.
It's meant to penetrator heavy armor. They're bot giving the soldiers the ammunition that was designed for it because it's like $300 a round. The bullets are solid tungsten and the muzzle velocity on the penetrator rounds is way up there. It's also a barrel burner and will destroy itself after a couple dozen rounds.
why switch to gas piston anyway
so many more failure vectors
I don't know that I've seen A1 on a sandbag test, but I don't think m955 would even go through a sandbag. Compressed sand is almost the same thing as a solid rock, but it won't split like a rock, making it even better cover.
Nij standards are fake and gay and your own army dont use them faggot.
Any tungsten core modern ammo go through Level 4 armor. Look at buffman youtube channel he like to test spicy round and level aren't magic.
This nigga gon die in a banzai lol
Civilian AR10s are already min maxed in the US. That's literally all they needed. Niche lightweight AR10s with high performance ammo for select sharpshooters and special forces. For example the Sig Spear weighs less than half a lb lighter than the 20" SR-25 sporter which has a scope. The M110 also already comes in 6.5 sneedmore to.
Retard Alert !
You understand M80 is a shitty slow ammo. Level 3 can't stop 5.56 nato or russian 5.45.
You need speed for penetration.
short stroke pistons are more reliable. Especially if you can't break down and clean and lube your shit daily. The scar and Aug are still the two most reliable rifles used by militaries, both SSP
short stroke pistons are more reliable.
for the first thousand maybe, etching makes those things junk after a while
The rifles are to be used on sandniggers, they are still somewhat effective at that.
I thought the XM7 got cancelled
US military firefight paradigm is effective but it's ammo heavy. Lots of suppressing fire and such. Plate carriers and helmets are not as big a problem as you would expect. Plenty of spots uncovered and they balance equipment for weight, not everyone is wearing super high rated plates.
There was a guy on youtube making tungsten ammo. He was buying tungsten rod on aliexpress, putting them inside the jacket and it worked pretty well.
Ergonomics.
It's heavier than the M4 and longer. The length makes it unwieldy in close combat, especially indoors.
Everything else is cope. Soldiers hate it because they're used to a lightweight gun and they've been pushing to sabotage the program because none of the people using the gun understand it's purpose. They just hate that it's heavier.
The essay referenced in this article comes from an officer cadet doing a paper for officer school. He canvased some soldiers that don't like the rifle because it's heavy and then threw in some unspecific stats about longevity without context to try and make it sound worse than it is.
Soldiers hate it, but it's the best compromise for the kind of accuracy and firepower an infantry rifle needs to have B's modern body armour. They hate it because they haven't actually needed to face any opposition using that body armour yet.
No. Some holding firm out of Germany owns the firearm manufacturers now (L&O Holdings).
seeIt's all fucked up.
flag
lol
Sig doesn't even own sig in germany anymore, retard.
Which is pretty stupid because it doesn't matter how much ammo you have
Literally false, every statistic shows that the winner of a fire fight is the one that brings more ammo to the battle.
Does not matter if its not penning armor, its physiologically surprising people.
Also consider how modern war is fought, Its not like the wars grandad or even dad fought. Modern war fair is.
"Suppress the target until air support bombs them."
Holy fuck you are retarded.
you're admitting that ceramic armor is not reliable against ARs in a real combat situation
I'm not because that isn't true. Level 4 armor will reliably stop any assault rifle round in a real combat situation. It is all tested and certified to do exactly that. That is what NIJ Level 4 means.
Putting numerous assault rifle rounds into the exact same spot until the armor eventually fails is not a realistic combat situation.
Soldiers potentially being injured or dying from gunshot wounds to parts of their body that aren't covered by the armor is also irrelevant.
the fact remains all AR calibers still go through body armors all the time.
No this not a fact because it doesn't happen. No one would wear heavy, bulky rifle plates if they didn't provide protection from small arms fire.
There are some types of soft/concealable body armor that sometimes worn by police or security guards that are only rated for handgun rounds and won't stop rifle rounds, but that's not what this thread is about.
As a civilian a battle rifle is moslty ok, since you wont be running arround like a soldier and most probably spend your time defending some place more than attacking. So, you dont really tons of ammo to carry over long distances. And having heavier ammo is handy in lot of situations. And of course something like a M4 or AKM if shit get closer and you need to move more freely.
But overall drilling and being proficient in radio communcation, is probably more important than the weapon as a civilian.
why switch to gas piston anyway
so many more failure vectors
The XM7 has increased pressure inside the barrel that makes direct impingement not possible for many reasons.
My favorite part was when they said "We want them to come with suppressors."
You can really tell that the people making these choices have no fucking idea how weapons operate or the function of these things.
Listen suppressors are cool as fuck, but they make your gun WAY dirtier, their effectiveness goes out the window after about 3-4 mags, and they get worse the hotter then get, not to mention heat haze.
Level 4 armor will reliably stop any assault rifle round in a real combat situation
False.
Nij is a shitty standard not even used by any armed forces, not even your own.
Stop speaking about level 4. It make no sens. Practically all tungsten core will go throught it pretty easily. If the US dont use tungsten it is because they lack the ressource. Unlike Russia or China who make tungsten core ammos.
The cartridge is not any more effective against armor than what was already available.
Level 4 armor will reliably stop any assault rifle round in a real combat situation.
Yeah....like once, lets not pretend that someone does not go LOL 62gr outta a 16 inch barrel get fucked kid.
Also even if you take a hit, your not NOT going to be down, you taking a hit is still gonna count you as a "casualty" because most of the time even if you take it ot the plate its gonna take you outta the fight for a while, also also, most of them are not multi hit, AND lvl4 plates are heavy as fuck, even in ceramic.
A cermaric plate can normally take like 2-3 maybe 4 rounds before its toast. In reality thye are deigned for like 1.
The M17 is a massive piece of shit that barely works, and yet we use it for some reason.
Literally every range I ever went to was constant, CONSTANT jams and malfunctions. Lower enlisted, NCOs, officers, the brass, I've been at ranges with all kinds of different people, and that gun was ALWAYS a total piece of shit that barely worked. It's actually dangerously shitty and I'm positive it's going to get people killed.
Brand new firearm, taken straight from the armory in 2020, they take it to the range.
BANG!
BANG!
*Click*
The piece of shit genuinely has a hard time not jamming after a couple shots. I don't know why, since I've watched a lot of video of civilians using that model and it's not nearly as much of a disaster, but in the ARMY, the gun doesn't fucking work. Could be the ammo we're using is cheap bullshit too, but regardless, I have verified with my own eyes at several different ranges that the gun is the least reliable piece of shit ever manufactured.
And yet, it's just our official sidearm and there's not really any alarm about it. Total psychopathy. I'm convinced adopting it was just some corruption scam so that some higher ups could insider trade on the stock market.
It's nice to hear that there are some officers who are willing to openly talk about how dogshit some of these retarded new weapons actually are.
Army/marines are retards. Rmemeber that it took the air force to get M9 due to army and marines still liking 45 caliber
What Americans can't afford is recreational fun/ being able to set money aside to save up. We can however afford basic necessity
When the US military made the M16, it was because they needed a light accurate firearm which soldiers could carry easily on foot over long distances carrying a decent enough amount of ammo to sustain themselves until resupply. This was so they perform better offensive actions.
This new rifle has a large cartridge and the firearm itself weighs even more than the M1a (that Anon Babble loves to make fun of becuz muh boomers n sheeit).
With China cranking out aircraft carriers every 6 months for the lat 15 years this indicates to me that the US govt is preparing for a DEFENSIVE capability.
I would feel sorry for the kids, but those dumbfucks will probably all be speaking yiddish by then.
stoner really nailed it, huh
"We want them to come with suppressors."
Kek, did they really say that?
I thought the XM7 came with a flash suppressor stock. I guess they didn't give them the flash suppressors either.
This reeks of their officers just giving them the barebones rifles and then handing them a bag of the "training" ammunition with no explanation on how to actually us the rifles.
Also the XM7 was never supposed to be an infantry rifle, nor was it supposed to replace the m4, or m16.
Level 3 can't stop 5.56 nato or russian 5.45.
That's why they make Level 3+, special threat, and Level 4 plates that will.
The XM7 is literally an assault rifle and is literally designed and procured to replace the M4 as the US Army's main service rifle.
It uses an intermediate rifle cartridge like any Assault Rifle, just a significantly more powerful one designed to penetrate body armour.
This is just made up shit.
The XM7 and XM8 are being procured together as part of a modernization program to update the Army's standard squad weapons. The Spear was designed for this purpose and won the competition. It's designed to fire a more powerful calibre a longer distance because lessons from Afghanistan showed that the M4 lacked the range to skirmish in rough terrain and the advancement of body armour made it necessary to increase the power and penetration of standard infantry rifles.
It's not a special operations weapon. It's not a battle rifle. It's not some niche specialist weapon. It is the M4s planned replacement, currently in use by the 101st Airborne while procurement ramps up.
Sigs are trash. News at 11
you think that's trash, you should've seen the m16a2's they gave to us for qualifocations
lol good god id take a 300 buck poverty AR with the neutered BCG over that piece of shit
Yes literally was one of their requierments for the program was supressors for it. Which my first thought was. "JFC, so many of these things are going to get "Lost" in the field."
Flash surppressor.
A Suppressor will act as a flash suppressor as well.
Also the XM7 was never supposed to be an infantry rifle, nor was it supposed to replace the m4, or m16.
If thats true my question would be, WTF is the point then?
Stoner created the ar10. Then designed the ar15 as a experiment to replace the m1 carbine. It turns out soldiers prefer to shoot lighter rounds than full 308 all day.
Infantry hated the M14 back in the day
No they didn't the infantry loved it because it was realiable and the 7.62 cartridge could cut easily through the dense jungle environment of Vietnam unlike 5.56. The only complaint was that it was kind of heavy but so was the FN FAL and you didn't see people bitching about that too much. A more modernized design lightens the guns up a little bit though so weight becomes a little less of an issue.
WTF is the point then?
To replace the FNSCAR for special operators. The round is meant to replace 308 not 223
All these rat dick 7.62x51 being posted with NO regards to the king.
indoors
i dont think that there is really indoor combat anymore. russians use drones and fast guys with antitank mines to clear buildings
Then the question become, why the fuck, if this is meant to be for special forces, did they not just opt to run a .300 black out round which is deisgned for subsonic, works amazing in surpressors, and is best out of a 1:7 twist barrel, and can use the existing AR platforms with just changing internals.
If thats true my question would be, WTF is the point then?
People will give you all sorts of answers for this but if you want the truth of the matter the XM7 rifle was just another contract the Military Industrial Complex got itself into in order to spend tax payer money on pointless things that at the end of the day isn't needed. This is the real reason the rifle was adopted at all.
Yes our Lord and Savior did, but then the contractors & bean counters got involved and added insult by providing faulty M16 ammunition for the Vietnamese environment.
Look like the MIC wins again I guess.
except for that giant rail obstructing your view when you go to ads for literally no reason
When the M16 was new, the US Army was significantly less mobile and relied much more on dismounted infantry walking to maneuver in combat. Their infantry mobility vehicle was the fucking M113.
That matters much less now that every squad has a Humvee, Bradley, Stryker, et al. to carry their ammo and supplies for them. Modern US infantry are extremely mobile and can carry a lot of weight.
And you dont need a new round to go throught level 4 body armor. Just good tungsten core ammos.
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7mm-08 Ackley Improved unironically mogs the shit out of standard magnums. It's supersonic to 1500 yards.
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I had an M4, and it worked fine. But yeah, the Army has a history of killing their soldiers over financial scams involving their weapons paltforms, so I don't doubt it.
I was also the gunner for my squad so there was an M240 mounted to our vehicle and it was also a piece of shit that I knew from my training would have a malfunction eventually, but at least it wasn't COMICALLY fucked up like the M17. Luckily I was in the Army during a pretty slow time period and never needed to actually fire my weapon at an enemy, but I trained with those pieces of shit long and hard enough to be utterly confused with how the fuck we could possibly be the top military.
The answer to that question is apparently that, no matter how incompetent we seem, our rivals are several orders of magnitude more incompetent so we just kind of get a pass.
To be fair it's pretty obvious the only reason the M16 was even adopted in the first place was because Stoner and the people around him greased some palms in the military to change their minds about the gun. I mean come on the M16 was getting shot down by the top brass left and right yet in the end they adopt it as the main comabt rifle anyway out of the blue. Luckily the M16 turned out to be a pretty good rifle once the kinks were worked out but imagine if it wasn't a good rifle and they adopted it anyway.
Sad
you worship jews so youre opinion is pretty much worthless. china makes aircraft carriers because jews have them burning resources and no one has told them that aircraft carriers have been obsolete for 60 years. theres a reason the us doesnt keep mass building new ones. its because theyre sitting ducks. theres rockets now. jewish space lasers.
You're right. This is part of why it was adopted. By and large the US already has specialist weapons for special forces involved in door kicking. For standard infantry in a peer conflict, which is what the US is gearing up for, you just destroy the building with cheap and plentiful explosives.
The US doesn't currently field squad-level drones but that's another big one on the priority list
Lol...you can just them multiple times, plates break. Engagemente dont happen at trickshotting ranges
They only changed their minds reluctantly because the M14 was worthless. And those "kinks" were them being so mad about it that they sabotaged the M16.
because the M14 was worthless
WW2 veterans loved the M1 Garand
The M14 is basically and M1 Garand with a magazine and chambered in a slightly different round
Magically the M1 Garand was loved but the M14 was hated because reasons
LOL no the M14 was not worthless if that were the case they wouldn't have handed them out to designated marksmen during the Afghanistan War which the marksmen loved it.
Here I found my old load data on it. This is taken as approximate performance as field performance varies. But this is a 20 inch barrel minmaxxed 7mm-08 AI at its best.
sure you can. button up and call in CAS and stop being a retarded nigger fortnite larper
army soldiers hated the m14 because it was heavy as fuck. marines loved the m14 because it was a marksman's weapon
Anon, there was 20 years between WWII and Vietnam. The M1 Garand was the best standard issue rifle of WWII. But a lot changed between then and Vietnam making the M14 entirely obsolete in the role it was trying to fill. And American snipers in WWII were still using bolt action Springfields. Should everyone have been using those instead?
Then the question become, why the fuck, if this is meant to be for special forces, did they not just opt to run a .300 black out round which is deisgned for subsonic, works amazing in surpressors, and is best out of a 1:7 twist barrel, and can use the existing AR platforms with just changing internals.
Because the XM7 is so much more than that. Not understanding just how fast and heavy the XM7 hits is what's bringing confusion to people.
"The .277 Fury SAAMI (voluntary) MAP chamber pressure of 80,000 psi (551.6 MPa) enables a 135 grains (8.7 g) projectile muzzle-velocity of 3,000 feet per second (914 m/s) from a 16-inch (406 mm) barrel."
Vs.
7.62 nato 60,191 psi at 2,809 ft/s (856 m/s) 2,648 ft⋅lbf
Again this isn't even taking into account the tungsten penetrator rounds.
If this is true then it was just the army being limpwristed faggots. Plus I'm sure it was like a hand full of army soldier that had their voices blown out of proportion as if all of them were complaining about it. You had militaries all over the west adopting the FN FAL which is actually a little heavier than the M14 and you didn't hear them complaining en masse. All you are doing is proving that the US Army are a bunch of whiney weak faggots.
Also for reference I found some old 7.62x39 tungsten AP ammo in my arms folder. This is the reported specs. It's stupid easy to pen iv with small caliber tungsten cores.
The only people that had the grand during ww2 were the army. The marines standard service rifle was still the Springfield in the pacific. They acquired other weaponry like the Johnson, but most marines were still using bolt action Springfields for their service rifle.
Again the XM7 is not meant to replace the m16. It's meant to replace the SCAR.
why is the big army retarded?
Big army things. Be glad we have been blessed with new firearms technology. Let’s see what insane wildcats we can load.
this /thread
In no way was the M14 obsolete as a standard issue rifle because by that logic you could say the same for every 7.62 battle rifle which the other countries loved them. In fact the Aussies used FAL's in Vietnam and despite its weight it did great for them and they never complained about it. As I said before the soldiers loved its reliability and the cartridge it fired which could break through the dense jungle and go through cover the enemy was hiding behind. It was military bureaucracy that got it replaced with the M16 nothing more.
Best gunmaker ever, from the people behind Mauser, and it's far more noticeable when you "downgrade" to other manufacturers. People will throw shade at them because of price, but there's also a lot of weak handlets that just physically can't use guns like the USP or the G3. They're hands are too small for the grip, and they're too weak to rack the charging handle.
In no way was the M14 obsolete as a standard issue rifle
It kinda was anon, by the time the M14 was adpoted, it was not suited for the theater of war it ended up in, the pacific and nam. It had way to many issues in the climate. The most notable was that the wood stock was super prone to warping due to all the humidity of the areas. This was a Major reason as to why the M16 took over.
Also due to threats at the time, a 556 was just as good as a 308, and carrying more ammo for the average rifle man was better in every way.
The M14 was and is a good rifle, it was not a good standard issue rifle which is why it did not see standard issue action for very long.
the ergonomics of an FAL and M14 are the same
The stock alone on the M14 sucks alone for a general infantry rifle post WWII.
NEW BREAD
People as untrained with guns as cops and military have no business using striker fired pistols. There's at least one "misfire" involving a cop every few months that gets "sent back to the manufacturer" to see what "went wrong". It's always ND but there's never articles about that
No, they are useful for shooting at people as often happens when people are shooting at you
It was literally determined to be the ammos fault 556 "green tip" is like regular ball ammo in a hand gun it just makes .22 size hole into whatever it hits without major fragmenting and tumbling the armys literally fixed that issue since with m855a1
What a fucking stupid article.
It holds 20 rounds
It's a larger caliber
It's heavier
It's a larger caliber
The barrel gets scratched
Doesn't mean anything. Making a superficial observation.
The whole point of the rifle is that 5.56 is insufficient at longer ranges. It's not Vietnam everywhere.