New Executive Order on Drug Prices

They're really serious about abolishing medicare.

Sure. Let's assume that we pay more. Shit sucks I guess. lol

But how that that improve your situation?
Your drug prices are retarded high because of middlemen and administration. The actual drug prices on import do not generate crazy profits.

Insulin is cheap as fuck. There is no reason why a US customer should pay 1000 dollars instead of the usual 80 that EU folks pay.

However: They import most of it. German, Denmark and France collectively supply 96% of the global insuline market. These nations do export.

Meanwhile in the US, the domestic market is covered 100% by domestic production. Basically, Eli Lilly, Novo Nordisk, and Sanofi form a cartell and charge whatever they want.

And since they do not export, how will Trump make them charge what other countries pay?
It does not make any sense whatsoever

Two more weeks before evil republicans push granny off a cliff

But how that that improve your situation?

It's a redistribution of the """cost of research""". We will pay less while Tigers pay more to balance it out. Who will pay more is not really our problem.

Most of that is from antidepressants for all the deranged, single lefty wom-birthing people

Tigers

*others

Insulin in America is expensive because they can charge insurance companies a lot of money for it. Their whole medical sector is like that. Circumcision is 1-5k, what research do you need for that? In Europe you can get endoscopy for same price in private hospital.

You all price control our companies and it seems to be working out fine for you. Why would price controlling your companies be more of a problem?

the most retarded bullshit you can think of

>US drug prices are inflated by middlemen and logistics. Not because the manufacturers charge extra.

The thing is that this does not make any sense.
Whatsoever.

Check this out

youtube.com/watch?v=x0MBrfqwdEg

Burgers - or rather their insurance companies absolutely rinse them.

Right, and the fat people drugs. And then they charge much more than they would otherwise.
Look up "Most Favored Nation Status"

But how that that improve your situation?

Prices in the USA are high because we're subsidizing the healthcare for the rest of the planet.
It's going to get interesting real quick when Euros suddenly have to start paying for their own fucking healthcare.

Why would price controlling your companies be more of a problem?

You are right in theory. But in real life, a lot of the extremely expensive medication that you pay inflated prices for is either domestically manufactured, or the prices are inflated because of middlemen in the US.
And no European drug company is going to subsidize your administration.

companies exporting to the US will not sell at a loss.

he's saying the us will pay the lowest price any other nation pays, so they would either already be selling at a loss elsewhere or it's a non issue
in reality they will stop selling directly into poor nations and instead resellers will spring up

Prices in the USA are high because we're subsidizing the healthcare for the rest of the planet.

I keep hearing this from US posters.
But can you name a single example of how this actually happens in real life?

American citizens subsidize European healthcare via exorbitant prices in the US. If the for-profit healthcare system in the US didn’t exist, medical technology would have stopped decades ago. There would be no incentive to advance.

they would either already be selling at a loss elsewhere or it's a non issue

You can't just toss most meds into a shipping container and have them transported over seas.

My point is that US drug prices are inflated for no reason. Especially when they are manufactured domestically, in the US.

The manufacturers themselves are not the ones raking in the insane profits. So nothing will really change for us. But your companies still want their profits.

Your issue with medication prices is home grown. So for us, nothing will really change.
And you might get medication shortages.

It doesn't happen with any civilized countries. Dementia Don and his Secretary of Health who bathes in shit creek have lost their minds.
Drugs are cheaper in Europe because our governments subsidize the prices while the American government doesn't help their own people much at all.

If setting the price was so simple why doesn't Trump sign an executive order like this for all goods.

US didn’t exist, medical technology would have stopped decades ago

You have the reading comprehension of a child and you should feel ashamed, but you’re too stupid to even realize why.

Anon...
Yes, the US ranks in the top for scientific research. But your claim that other countries do not do their part is just wrong.
We just do not pay outlandish amounts for our research. Medical innovation is not a US exclusive. And the sheet shows that.

Not because the manufacturers charge extra.

They do.
Norway pays a fraction of what the USA does, because Norway bans drugs where they charge us American prices.

Yes it does. We will pay less. Europoors will pay more to make up the difference. We’ve been subsidizing your defense, economy, and healthcare for long enough. Time to pay up you fucking impoverished faggots.

It’s an international market, tardo. They delve into medical research so they can exploit the for-profit medical system in the US, not so they can sell under strict price controls in Europe.

Prices in the USA are high because we're subsidizing the healthcare for the rest of the planet.

Hahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahhshshshahahahahahahahhaahhshshahhshshahshs

You pay more because of no universal healthcare and you suck corporate leader cock. It‘s your freedom, the freedom of choosing to die or to pay.

Fauci et al defended high prices on us drugs because the high profits incentives big pharma to develop new drugs.
I don't think this is true, but that was the rationale.

Give it up Kraut. Enjoy your $200 insulin on us. KEK

Europoors will pay more to make up the difference

That is probably not true either.

Anon, your insulin manufacturing is domestic.
Meanwhile we manufacture enough to export it across the globe lmao.

Why would insulin prices in Europe go up?
It's not a new drug in any way.

see We mostly obtain materials for drug manufacturing from the US. Not drugs themselves. And it is not like you are the only supplier for these.

Prices in the USA are high because we're subsidizing the healthcare for the rest of the planet.

Man, phones have been the worst thing to happen to the internet. We missed retards like you.

oh so it's thanks to mutts we have universal healthcare i see
turns out mutts were paying for it all along
dat fucking retard xD

Because this board is all kike shills, they talk about what they want to put forth into the world, its not real people having honest discussion.

The place of manufacturing isn't relevant to this. I'll assume you're saying there are drugs sold here and nowhere else, because that would be relevant. I'm not aware of the happening but it's theoretically possible. If other companies are manufacturing an alternative we can go buy that instead, with limitations on how much they can charge us. If they're not, this particular policy would have no effect. A policy doesn't have to fix everything to be positive, though.

it's the middlemen

I don't think this is actually true, except maybe in the sense of some kind of insurance-pharmaceutical collusion. I think the manufacturers are the ones pocketing obscene price mark-ups. Even if it was true and someone else is pocketing that money, there exists *someone* he can limit prices for where the savings would go to the consumer.

It's been commonly said for a long time that American prices are to cover R&D costs. Everyone else is able to price control up until the point where manufacturing and shipping drugs is just barely profitable because those are all the uncovered costs. If America suddenly stopped existing companies would have to cover R&D costs somewhere else. You would have to have less harsh price controls if you wanted new drugs to be invented.

Now you could say that's wrong, the R&D claim is a complete scam, and that even without America the rest of the world is paying enough to fund R&D. That could be true, I don't think either of us actually knows. I sort of doubt you're generously providing American pharmaceutical companies with extra money you don't have to, though.

I'll assume you're saying there are drugs sold here and nowhere else, because that would be relevant.

I merely gave an example that US manufactured drugs still have exorbitant prices.
Insulin for example is not imported. And there is not a lot of innovation to be had in that sector either. They just price gouge US customers because they can.

Therefore the "favoured nation" status that Trump wants to enforce does nothing. Because there are often no other nations involved. Again: Insulin is the best example here. It's not like the US exports that stuff.

The whole market is contained to the US. From manufacturing to distribution.

So what is Trump going to do? Make pharmacies stop buying Insulin from their suppliers, because other people around the globe who have no connection to your market whatsoever have figured out a better way to do it?

It's been commonly said for a long time that American prices are to cover R&D costs.

Now you could say that's wrong, the R&D claim is a complete scam

It is not a complete scam. But mostly.
R&D is a nice excuse to price gouge.
But as previously shown in other nations also conduct their own R&D for a fraction of the cost.
As a whole, the EU contributes more to medical research than US drug manufacturers. And our prices did not explode like yours.
Sure, R&D plays a role in pricing. But not anywhere to the extend that US drug manufacturers would want you to believe.

A lot of R&D also happens to improve on drugs that already exist and have established applications. Sure, better drugs are great. But what is being researched often has VERY niche applications so they can price gouge harder. Not so they can improve the actual quality of lives.

For example anesthetics for eye surgeries that work slightly faster than the "old" anesthetic used, so the Surgeon wastes less time on preparing the patient.
That is cool and all, but in no way life saving.

Now you could say that's wrong, the R&D claim is a complete scam,

I think this is true though.
If we look at Ozempic, then the a lot of the research was paid by Nordics that wanted diabetes medicine and not just insulin.
When the diabetes medicine also worked for weight loss, they struck gold, as they could charge the burgers 10 times more than Norwegians and Danes.

I don't know the details of the insulin market. But from what I very briefly looked up what you're saying isn't true. There are a few companies that make the majority of the world's insulin, and they do sell outside the US. So the price cap would apply to them.

the EU contributes more to medical research than US drug manufacturers

If the researchers sell drugs in the US then it's still possible for you to offload costs that way. If that's not happening and you're really paying for the research entirely by yourself without needing to recoup costs through later drug selling, then clearly that research isn't being subsidized. There still is other research that is subsidized. It's obviously this latter research which people are talking about. I agree you probably won't all die if you stop getting whatever portion of new drugs which are being subsidized by America.

They're capable of selling it to you for less than they otherwise would be able to, since they make so much scamming us. I don't know whether you actually have gotten that discount or not.

Krautanon, give it up. there's no arguing with mutts. they just want to play the victim, whether it's because 'they're paying for our defense' or 'they're paying for the pharmajew's 'research', they are eternal victims because the kikes have told them they are, and they can't have nice things we europoors enjoy because of it
Even the smarter mutts have been mind raped by jews from birth. It's useless arguing with mutts. Just laugh at them and ignore

They're capable of selling it to you for less than they otherwise would be able to, since they make so much scamming us.

No anon they are just not dumb enough to not overprice it for you mutts. You guys think universal healthcare is communism, you have millions of insurance companies beeing total dogshit. One of your biggest tv series is about a teacher becoming a drug dealer, because he can‘t afford a cancer treatment.

They're capable of selling it to you for less than they otherwise would be able to,

In the case of Ozempic/wegoway that is just not true.
Norway pay production costs + profit.
The USA pay production costs + 10 times the profit.
Private health insurance is very costly, because they are banned from collective bargaining.

they just want to play the victim

They are the victims of Fauci et al and the totally idiotic law that bans collective bargaining.

In addition to production costs there was some chunk of money they needed to spend on development. If only your country existed you would cumulatively need to pay production + development + profit. Instead the US exists and easily covers development, meaning you can get away with only paying production + profit.

Now I don't know, maybe you actually are paying enough to cover development. But you're completely capable of not doing that, and I assume Euro governments and companies have taken the inevitable massive American contribution into account when setting your drug prices.

Wrong. There are 2 classes of drug consumers in the United States: 1) People on government insurance (Medicare / Medicaid) and 2) people on private insurance.

Trump's executive order only applies to what the government pays, which will lower prices for group #1. This is primarily retirees on Medicaid and poor niggers and spics on Medicaid. The executive order helps them.

If you are a business and sell to 2 different groups, and suddenly one of the groups has strict price controls, then what is your reaction function to maintain profitability? You raise prices on group #2 so that you can keep hitting your earnings targets.

So that is what Trump did. He implemented strict price controls on government subsidies gibs recipients and as a result companies will dramatically raise prices on everyone with non-government insurance. Bad policy. 0/10.

Making the rest of the world worse just would make me smile which is a W in its own way.

They're serious about abolishing medicare for 180 year olds and illegal 3rd world savages.

They're not currently sitting around saying "Hey I bet we could raise prices on private insurance but let's not do that because I want to maintain a constant level of profit. We'll hold off on doing that until our profits decrease". They apparently think they can't get away with raising private prices even more. It's possible lowering public prices will affect the equilibrium and make them try something, but profitability isn't something they're trying to "maintain", it's something they're constantly trying to maximize.

You guys do import a LOT of drugs from other nations

What drugs do you think we buy from other countries?

All it means is that nations that negotiate drug pricing will no longer have the leverage to be able to do so.

The pharmaceutical companies know how much money, per dose, they require in order to make a profit, and every penny that is negotiated down by another country, is a penny more that Americans will be forced to pay for the same dose.

This EO strips the ability of foreign nations to subsidize their pharmaceutical needs at the expense of Americans.

TL;DR No more free lunches, Hans. We’re tired of subsidizing your healthcare system.

development

We paid for the development of Ozempic.
Ozempic is not a new drug in Denmark and Norway since it was tested out on diabetes patients here first.
When it was discovered that it was the first good weight loss drug, then all the developments costs had already been paid. The weight loss drug is called wegoway, but it's basically the same.

It's not going to make the rest of the world worse.
You burgers has been scammed.

I know things like Zoloft are made in Europe, for a lot cheaper than you would have to pay for it.

holy fucking insanity

US patent

patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/71/c2/f1/d9b8eee63339c2/US7186863.pdf

All it means is that nations that negotiate drug pricing will no longer have the leverage to be able to do so.

You are so fucking stupid that it's painful.
Big Pharma will just make different drugs for different markets, since they already do that.
Most drugs are not called the same in Europe or the USA as they contain different supplements.

Okay? We still pay other countries to make the medicine for us. So we are buying from other countries.

We are manufacturing in another country. You can take the same production line, and move it to another country.

I just looked it up, Xanax is called Xanor in Norway.

That is another thing Trump is trying to do. Take the manufacturing we do in other countries and bring it back here.

This is turning into vacuous tail-chasing because money is fungible and you can declare 'development' and 'profit' to come from any sources you want for a drug with development costs so low compared to the profit. It's probably fair to say the drug would still have been developed if the US didn't exist and so it's a bad example of the US subsidizing medicine in Europe.

What's true in general is that either development was paid for by the US or a ton of extra profit was sent over by the US. In the latter case that profit is converted into economic growth, social services via taxation, and future medical research via industry profits. So foreigners benefit a lot from Americans being screwed whenever drugs are sold here, either because the seller is a foreigner, or because foreigners are capable of dictating prices which wouldn't cover development costs. I don't actually know that the latter case happens, but it would be bizarre if the people setting prices didn't take advantage of the fact that development will inevitably be covered elsewhere in order to pay as little as possible.

In any case foreigners do benefit from American prices and reducing them will harm the rest of the world. The exact details of where that benefit goes is largely an accounting game.

What's true in general is that either development was paid for by the US or a ton of extra profit was sent over by the US.

But most drugs don't save lives.
Numbers Needed to Treat for preventive drugs are in the thousands, so I think that they are all a scam because these drugs have side effects.
NNT for Ozempic is basically 1. NNT for antibiotics is also close to 1
I agree that the USA should demand Ozempic for the same price Denmark pays.

The Nordic countries have more or less stopped doing back-surgeries because they make it worse long term, but burgers do them.
You burgers are being scammed.

In any case foreigners do benefit from American prices and reducing them will harm the rest of the world.

Less profits will hurt both the world and America equally, if you think that new drugs really is a benefit to society.
Cancer drugs has gotten better, but I think the Nordic countries pay as much as America fir those.

same thing with netflix and microsoft and spotify and....... EVERYTHING

always has been

cry more, nigger.

So it's cheaper in other countries because they have a lower purchasing power and whatnot,

Novo Nordisk that make Ozempic made insulin for the Nordic market since the 1939?. They were the first to make it from genemodified bacteria, and started to supply the world with cheap insulin.
That insulin is expensive in the USA is the fault of the USA (big pharma) and nobody else.

Great news for drug addicts.

Price controls are based and they work stop crying eurofag you lost

Lower research budgets will hurt the entire world (probably not equally because there are differences in cost and how beneficial the drug is for a population, but w/e), but will also benefit whoever is no longer paying for the research. "There are no solutions, only trade-offs." Most people seem to think that trade-off will benefit the US, while for other countries which aren't actually spending less it can only be detrimental.

You can argue about how detrimental and I wouldn't be surprised if the talk of American subsidation is overblown and big pharma loses out much harder than Euros do. I just also think the benefit is clearly there, so other countries will be losing something. Obviously whenever they produce drugs, and probably also whenever they set prices on an America-produced drugs. I just don't believe foreign price setters are setting prices which would cover an equal proportion of development costs when they don't have to.

Buckbreaking Big Pharma is based especially after they participated in that fake plandemic

The Nordic countries have more or less stopped doing back-surgeries because they make it worse long term, but burgers do them.

Based. Surgeries, nerve blocks and other invasive interventions for back pain are primitive medieval tier retardation. Opioids are actually the safest therapy for back pain since spontaneously resolution and remission are possible meaning further use and surgery are both unnecessary. Yet the US has managed to cut prescribing them to virtually zero for a fictitious epidemic. Now instead of $10 total cost for a monthly prescription for an issue that likely will improve with time, people are hacked and sliced apart for $80,000 with either no success or worsened pain. There is no evidence being prescribed opioids for pain leads to iatrogenic addiction.

US drug prices are inflated by middlemen and logistics.

And they are not elsewhere?
There is somehow an indissolvible middlemen and logistics need that only exists in the US of A?

Sure. Let's assume that we pay more. Shit sucks I guess. lol

But how that that improve your situation?

Your drug prices are retarded high because of middlemen and administration. The actual drug prices on import do not generate crazy profits.

US consumers who can’t afford the US drug prices, sometimes go across the border to Mexico or Canada, or travel to other countries just to fill prescriptions cheaply.
By requiring US drug prices yo equal the foreign prices, there is no incentive for customers to leave the US to fill prescriptions, therefore protecting American pharmacist jobs, as well as cutting out the shipment of prescriptions from over seas to the USA, which is also an issue.
This then makes it harder to ship “other pharmaceuticals” such as Fentanyl into the USA disguised as prescription shipments.
Further, any profit on the sales of those foreign prescriptions remains in the USA.

Opioids are actually the safest therapy for back pain

Those are banned as well.
You get sick leave and physiotherapy until the pain subsides. 90% get back pain once in their lifetime, and giving opioids for something that pass with rest and physiotherapy is insane.

There is no evidence being prescribed opioids for pain leads to iatrogenic addiction.

So why do we ban them for being addictive?
My dad got them when he had terminal cancer, and I think you can get them if the pain is worse than addiction.
The ultimate reason we get back pain, is because it's a sign that you need to rest. Taking pain medication so you can put strain on an inflammed back is to ask for trouble.

I agree that the USA will be better off, so you should do it for that reason alone.
I don't really think it will make drugs more expensive for the rest of the world, but we will probably see less R&D money for new drugs.
If we deduct cancer drugs, then I think less R&D is a good thing, since preventive drugs are mostly a scam.

Lower research budgets will hurt the entire world

Depends what's being researched
Expropriating all pharma money would be an unalloyed good

I don’t think they even give real pain meds in the states anymore. I live with severe constant nerve pain all they gave me was some trash called gabapentin. Shit don’t work and it still gets me high I don’t get it

I don’t think they even give real pain meds in the states anymore.

I buy that, since the opioid epidemic scared the lawmakers.

I live with severe constant nerve pain

Where?
If it's in your feet of fingers, then deep massage with a round diamond file or similar can help.
The connective tissue needs to be loosened up, so your hands and feet becomes soft to the touch again.
Nobody make any money from it though, since you do it yourself and the diamond file last forever.
It doesn't have to be a diamond file, but it grips the skin so the massage works better.

All over my body. In my arms my legs my chest my scalp. It feels like someone is taking a burning electric razor blade and slashing me with it. The first time it happened in my chest I just laid down and thought this is it this is what dying is like it’s been a shit run. When I eat it goes from my stomach all the way down my legs and everywhere in between those places. It’s not fun having a red hot razor blade shock your dick anon. Trust me. I don’t think massage will fix any of it but I appreciate suggestion. They say these pills take like a month to work so maybe I’m just being impatient

All over my body. I

Ouch.
Have you tried what the Romans did?
Oil, sand,and Sauna and being tanned?
It must have worked, because they did it for centuries,
I tried it for fun, and it did give me good skin if nothing else. and I didn't have to shower as often.
It takes way longer time than a shower, so I do that mostly.

How come no one here seems to talk about this?

Because it is just another empty gesture, it won't do anything.

you guys know there's literally no way america can enforce this and he's blatantly lying to you right?

nerve pain

Nerve pain is a code for we don't know in my book, so that is why I suggest safe alternatives.
Our ancestors had treatments that did work to some degree, but they were slow and probably did not help everybody.
Modern treatments are all about profits, and that means it needs to work fast, so strange diseases might be helped by how we did it in the past.

Saunas are a no go for me sadly too much of a fatigue issue I don’t think it would be safe. I’m even on the cold shower bullshit. What has helped the most is lifting I feel good when I lift so I do that everyday now and I’ll keep that up until I get too sick and have to use a wheelchair. I’ll probably blow my brains out if that happens

Oh they know what is wrong they say I have severe ppms and that the lesions in my brain and spine is causing all the issues because my immune system sees the myelin sheath protecting them as hostile so my body is dissolving it.

If Sauna, Vodka or pine tar don't help, then you are dead.
Old Finnish saying.

cold shower bullshit

That is uncomfortable, so I need to be sick first to try that.
The reason that sauna, oil and sand helps you skin is that it really cleans your pores.
The Finns beat themselves with birch twigs in the Sauna to get a similar effect.

What has helped the most is lifting

And then you are sweating at least.

I hate tanning but I think it's healthy to be tanned once a year, so I play roman when I'm tanning to have something to do, since I think it's the sweating bit along with something that cleans you pores that is important.
Rubbing sandblasting sand and body lotion all over your body while you are sweating gives you good skin if nothing else.

This might be true and all,and it still might be a simple cure.
That said MS is a serious disease that my hack methods 99.9% sure won't cure. If you had shingles or a fungal infestation it might have worked.

opioids for something that pass with rest and physiotherapy is insane.

They are inert medication that's neither good nor bad. Opioids are however beneficial at inducing analgesia without much risk when rx'd hence it is not insane. It's logical and was the first course of action for centuries. Physiotherapy is chiropractor tier quackery. The reason for improvement improve is the passage of time rather than anything the quacks had them do. The same time could have elapsed with less pain and less downtime with the use of opioids. Doing nothing and letting a patient persist in agony is more and thinking pseud tricks of a hack noctor in a labcoat bending them around is actually doing anything is what is insane.

So why do we ban them for being addictive?

Circular argument similar to saying "so if climate change isn't real then why did we restrict carbon emissions". There is no evidence to support opioids for pain poses significant risk for acquired addiction from it meanung that the midwit public servants ushering the medical restrictions were mistaken or dishonest.

Opioids

Morphine is not an opioid, and morphine is not as struct as opioids here.
I'm pretty sure that you as an MS patient would get anything you wanted here, even opioids.

Physiotherapy is chiropractor tier quackery

It's not.
You get exercises to strengthen or loosening you muscles. If you walk incorrectly, you can get back pain, and physiotherapy helps with both correcting the underlying problem and to losening the muscles.
If you think of your body as a sponge, then you don't get that clean by just holding it under the tap. You need to squeeze it repeatedly to get it clean again, and ditto is for your heart when it comes to pumping blood everywhere into your body.
If you can't move around because it's painful, then massages can help bring fresh blood in and pollution out.

There is no evidence to support opioids for pain poses significant risk for acquired addiction

I just don't buy that.
If the pain is worse than the addiction, then you get opioids here, all paid by the state.

There is no evidence to support opioids for pain poses significant risk for acquired addiction

I had a bag of oxycontin and oxynorm after my dad died, and I tried it for a week, and suffered withdrawal symptoms afterwards.
I just did the 5mg ones, and my dad was on 120 mg per day when he died.

Are you retarded? You think Trump made this executive order for no reason? If we aren't being charged more by the manufacturers then this order does nothing. But we are being charged more to subsidize other nations. Your price will increase and ours will decrease, retarded faggot.

I would look into how PPMS is treated in Germany and the Nordic countries, since they might have treatments that is not used in the USA. Hungary also have treatments not offered elsewhere.
People here often look to what they are doing in the states, when our doctors can't help, Most of the time that don't help, but sometimes it does.

Power fixes a lot of gaps in plans in practice, we'll see how it holds up soon enough.