This SIG gun is going through trials and will most likely be our new service rifle. will it suit Trump's needs?

Nigger, look at my flag.

Do you think I know much about guns?

The cartridge is stupid and overengineered. I have handguns that get just as much velocity and muzzle energy from a five inch barrel.

why is it brown? are you abandoning your old gods the niggers and embracing us brownoids as ur new overlords? or is it just to make so it's camo friendly to the now population majority of hispanic amerimutts

Doesn't matter when you military is full of niggers and women who can't fight worth a shit.

can it shoot drones?

it looks really cool, I will add it to my zombie apocalypse daydream story, an AK is still better irl

I forgot. Swedes are grenade enthusiasts.

last week a colonel submitted a paper explaining why it's shit. I don't see this lasting long, Fun fact: the ceo of the company that makes this crap is of a certain ancestral religion from the middle east!

It’s dumb logistically but cool to shoot. You’re gonna get issued a rusty m16a2 anyway.

The thing is, you can either buy like a 5090 or one of these guns. From my perspective, it makes sense that a 5090 costs that much, because of the engineering that goes into it and the programming, etc. But a gun? IDK, it just seems overpriced.

Yes. Thank you for understanding.

Wasn't this going to be the M5? Or maybe I'm misremembering

Didn't the brass get butthurt that the dude had good data and facts.

It's a Biden-era corporate welfare scheme, completely unnecessary as it does nothing that the AR platform we already have can't do, and would require a complete ammunition overhaul of the the US military's arsenal which would be tremendously expensive (see the track record of the M16 in Vietnam for a perfect example of how well that goes).
It's not a bad gun, it's just a white elephant.

shut the fuck up you insufferable twink

Because the rifle was developed to fight sandnigs who took pot shots at troops off mountains with PKMs and higher caliber soviet ammunition but we've already withdrew before the gun was finished.

Someone tell me why it’s shit now

1.) It's made by sig
2.) The ammo is retardedly expensive (ammo shortages for training are already a real thing, and will become a nightmare during any sort of large-scale war)
3.) It's heavy as fuck (~30% heavier than the outgoing m-4).
The original idea was to have a do-it-all weapon shooting a larger caliber bullet that wouldn't be useless at 300+ yard range (like how 5.56 was useless in afghanistan). It would be a higher powered rifle, with the ability to morph into a light machine gun to replace the M249 SAW (unreliable POS that shoots an anemic cartridge for a machine gun). Instead, the Army got a do-everything-so-poorly rifle that only is going to work as a rifle, and will be much heavier than necessary for its role (anyone can easily build a 5lb rifle shooting a comparable cartridge for cheap, and this thing weights 8.4lbs).
4.) The bullet/cartridge design is shitty. The bullet isn't 30 caliber, but it kicks like 30 caliber. The cartridge is expensive to manufacture. It has super high pressure, a legacy of the earlier desire to pierce body armor (which it failed to do), which means it will erode barrels much faster than normal rifles for no benefits. The army fell for the ~6mm meme, which means the bullets won't kill any better than 5.56mm, but they'll be heavier and cost more. They could've gone for a smaller diameter, closer to 6mm, slicker bullet for much improved aerodynamics over 5.56 without much increase in weight/cost, but they went halfway between 5.56mm and 30caliber with 6.8mm and fucked it up in every way.
I think the cartridge is the biggest design flaw. The optic (made by a totally different company) is cool as fuck, but probably too expensive to be fielded widely.

Eventually that's the idea.
Automatic fire control with smart targeting fed info from networked systems.
Wave the stick in the direction and the computer fires automatically when it passes over the mark.

It's a SIG.

there is a Anon Babble forum you know
bunch of weirdos tho kek

You sound like a complete and utter moron.

Fucking kys, nigger.

It won't get adopted. M4s on Mars.

Bigger rounds means they weigh more and magazines are 10 rounds smaller. Overall less can be carried by a soldier

there is a Anon Babble forum you know

bunch of weirdos tho kek

I don't suck enough ukrainian penis to post there

Wasn't it already shit on enough to be shunned? I thought they'd be starting a new embezzlement game by now.

Be usa.

Kvetch about russia.

Makes desert camo rifle.

You are going to die for israel. lol.

should have used just used grendel in the standard AR platform

Considering 99% of the people American troops shoot are third world civilian insurgents wearing track suits and sandals who dont have advanced body armor or any body armor the 5.56 rifles are better in every way.

It's a piece of shit
-anyone who has ever used it

It's the new M14

I hope you're just pretending to be stupid

probably going to get canceled amd we get another 10 years of M4A1 and maybe a URGI upgrade to A2

The virtus in 300 is a far superior rifle

new m14

just use a 338 bolt gun if you need to reach out and touch somebody

$1k isn't much for a vital piece of equipment for your front line soldiers.
Why cut corners even if you can get 95% of the quality for half the price?

this POS isnt replacing anything lmao
I BELIEVE IN STONER SUPREMACY

It's Sig
The XM7 is trash, its the M-14 all over again

4x scope
2 point sling
LOOOOOL

Because it's made in India sig saar

It sucks that Anon Babble has to leak over here since nafoggots took over that board.

shitty jew jeet gun

Wow, so great.

good info. question; all that open space around the barrel looks like a problem waiting to happen and a pain in the ass to clean. is that an issue or not?

Used with what ammo?
The full power combat ammo it's designed around that only the military can buy or the weak training ammo anyone can buy?

You're a SIGtard

Sig spears are about $2200 barebones

Trump can just use a handgun to off himself. Farmers and MAGAtards do it all the time.

So side mounted bius are good?

This atrocity is far worse than that
it's not even good enough to be a joke, it's like the Idiocracy of mil rifles

I hope cohen is fired and actually goes to german prison.

So its the F35 of rifles

I have one of those, and yeah, it would've accomplished 90% of what the new M7 does for 5% as much money and without any of the flaws. But the Army wanted a revolutionary upgrade instead of an incremental upgrade, and in the end they're paying cutting edge tech prices for something that's not really revolutionary at all.
Why I'm a fan of 6.5 grendel:

weight increase isn't that bad (~10% fewer rounds for the same weight)

reliability is good

much better at longer ranges (major purpose of this new rifle) than 5.56

drop-in replacement for existing systems, cost of upgrade is cheap, especially in terms of training

relatively low pressure, good barrel life (important, since lots of units aren't going to do a good job of keeping up with maintenance)

negatives:

weird/necked down cartridge shape could be a concern for jams & such (I don't have issues, but that may just be because I take care of my rifle unlike the military, who needs a rifle that can be beat to shit and still function)

needs a stronger/more expensive bolt carrier group (I broke my original one and had to buy a nicer one)

can't pierce body armor (neither can the 6.8 sig or any of the other rounds tested)

I think the negatives are mostly fixable if they spent time tweaking stuff.

Our new service rifle

Belongs to a museum, your army spends gorillions into making GPS guided iron rods, fired in a click by some mulatto in a gaming chair.

Will it suit Trump's sneeds?

Tye holy state of Israel have an industry (see IMI).

retarded, short-sighted, corrupt choice
the GD RM-277 was the superior weapon:

youtube.com/watch?v=BoBOuv6qJNU

on the grips? Shouldn't be an issue / need cleaning. I do miss the old school M16 style hand-guards with the heat shields though. The lack of modularity sucked (couldn't easily mount lasers & stuff), but they're much more ergonomic and don't burn the shit out of your hands if you happen to not have gloves. It'd be nice if they put heat shields inside the grips again and maybe tried using polymer or something else to keep the weight down.

maybe a negative is the parent case is (essentially) 7.62x39 and there isn't much domestic production setup for that. Hardly insurmountable. Honestly none of it is really necessary, improvements in 5.56 ammo have mitigated a lot of the terminal ballistics issues and for true longer range need just keep using 7.62x51 in the M240 or M14. This whole thing is a $olution is search of a problem at this point.

polymer ammo

Has that been in any service rifle in the world? Might be a good idea (or not) but seems very risky.

Thanks for reminding me, this country too is going stupid carbine 5.56 route
Just another reason to try to fuck off to somewhere else

apparently it's ass

I do miss the old school M16 style hand-guards with the heat shields though

my nigga. I like them too, much much more ergonomic

Should've just taken FN FAL and do something about weight and kick. It does everything this thing is supposed to do, only it actually does it. LMG, marksman rifle, general infantry rifle - one size fits all solution, made 50 years ago. Oh, but then there are no military contracts, how do we boost the GDP without muh contracts, how will we make the number go up without contracts!

if we get a new service rifle can we at least make something iconic not a another ripoff AR style?

They'd just fuck it up.

they didnt meet their goals in 2023 its a nothing burger. NIG sauer cant even make a pistol that doesnt shoot itself if you drop it.

I'm unsure why they couldn't use an AR10 platform

There are much better platforms than AR10. Sig not being one of them.
No. Also steel case is now making a comeback which allegedly is better than Sig's unreleased ammo.

oh ok. not being into guns beyond my 870 shotty that looked like something which would get filled with mud and shit, but i guess its not a big deal. thanks

Oh wait, it's the military industrial complex looking for gibs

Honest question, Okinava Joe Ramirez: you guys have had 6.5 Grendel for some time and it performed well, why didn't you go with it?

the good thing is they won't even need zoomlet conscripts, with that
because sigs shoot themselves on their own

It doesn't matter all that much really. I honestly dont even consider those types of components integral to the gun they are basically interchangeable.

The bigger problem here is the shitty selection of cartridge.

Same exact problem - too little ammo. The stopping power is nice when you have the time and opportunity to take an accurate shot but most engagements aren't really like that. It's mostly just indirect fire and having an extra ten rounds per magazine is far more valuable than having more kinetic energy per round. We keep trying to upgrade and we keep learning the same lesson - that 5.56 is almost the perfect intermediate cartridge (Although if I were in charge I would just upgrade everything to 300blk - which wouldn't be as hard as making a completely new rifle and round). Thank you for lisening to me TedTalk.

dude i just want a cool looking gun

that's what useless euro militaries do

the brief was for a revolutionary next-generation weapon system; it can't be both 'revolutionary' and 'non-risky'
look—before they adopted the m16, had there ever been a supercharged varmint round used instead of a real intermediate cartridge in a service rifle?
a generational leap requires a leap
it should also be noted there hasn't been a hybrid trimetallic casing used in a service rifle cartridge either—presumably because it's retarded and expensive

There are better platforms than AR10, but the military leadership is too retarded to find anything even remotely serviceable.

steel case is now making a comeback which allegedly is better than Sig's unreleased ammo

Better how?

they are basically interchangeable.

ah i see. probably very easy to remove i guess, thinking about it. and yeah, can appreciate not wanting to use some weird cartridge.

now this might be completely off, but from what the japanon is saying this rifle was the army trying to get a good all rounder with longer range ability all in one package. isnt that what they did with the AK47 and that German assault rifle back in the war? isnt that why 7.62 rounds are so popular?

M27 is the god tier white mans rifle. Army queers can’t shoot.

The real issue is that jews sold out the military for a quick buck. It's not coincidence that SIG USA got chosen for rifle, machine gun, AND handgun.
a stainless steel hybrid case that allows 556, 308 etc to have "spicier" rounds without blowing up in your face. Matching velocity of that new sig fury cartridge.

Should've just taken FN FAL

Gun is too long, too heavy and doesn't like sand or mud. Plus they would have to go 7.62 nato which requires more marksmen training and is basically useless at full auto unless you're a gigachad.

I'm unsure why they couldn't use an AR10 platform

Gun is too long, too LIGHT(even more recoil felt by the shooter than a FAL) and you can't even set it up with a folding stock due to the buffer tube design

Problem is the US army started out wanting the "stahpping powah" and penetration of a 7.62 without any of the downsides and when they couldn't do that they settled for the downsides of 7.62 with basically none of the upsides. Pretty typical for government planning these days.

hybrid

Wouldn't that be quite a bit more expensive? Is it worth it?

This guy in the '80s.

Pretty sure the fact its integrated with supressor (shit they want to every gun now) with improved armor-piercing properties against the russkis RATNIK system is the reason.

Delusional

Waste of money. Pic related is a weapon that actually wins wars. Small arms are for executing your enemies after they surrender.

M27

Perfect tool for crayon eaters. Nearly indestructible.

quite a bit more expensive

It's a bit more expensive yes but we're able to buy it now even and it's not crazy expensive within context. 44 dollars for 50 rounds of 556.

55gr/ 3,150 fps/ 1,212 ft-lbs.

vs Sig

140 gr, 3000 fps

Any rifle upgrade is currently pointless unless it addresses the fact that no mid sized rifle caliber can directly defeat current armor. Even with 30-06 black tip it's likely you'll just break ribs
If you think the other guy has current gen level IV plates, you should be aiming for extremities or head. Because of this 5.56 is still a very, very good round to use

This will only become more obvious once battery size/weight/capacity issues are overcome and you start seeing framed body armor using leg prosthetics, and ceramic plating over most of the body becomes a real thing

That wins wars fought between welfare armies in commieblock shitholes, maybe. We have air power.

I think the issue was that outside of some specialized 5.56mm rounds tested by special forces/rangers (that performed slightly better out to 300-500m), the 5.56mm that the troops were fielded with didn't work well past about 300m (if that). So everyone was forced to rely solely on their 7.62mm and up sized weapons, of which your typical infantry platoon only had 2 x M240s, so the other 90% of the soldiers were carrying useless rifles or LMGs that they couldn't engage the enemy with. This should've been known if the Army bothered reading its own reports from previous wars, where even past 100m certain, older 5.56mm bullet designs became ineffective.
Putting 6.5 grendel (or something like it) in at least a M249 type light machine gun replacement could've helped a lot, since now you'd have 6 additional LMGs that can engage at longer range without affecting your riflemen's combat load, but then you end up with 3 calibers to field & supply; so one side is going to have to compromise just to make the logistics work (7.62 MG or 5.56mm rifle). I think going with something with good aerodynamics that also isn't too crazy heavy/powerful for the riflemen would've been a good compromise on the smaller end while still letting you equip platoons with a large caliber for the medium machine guns.
This would compromise things a bit at shorter distance engagements but keep everyone effective at longer ranges (and I'd rather be a little overkill at short range than ineffective at long range).

t. spent way too much time reading studies on this issue and speaking with afghanistan vets.

Remember that shit digital camo the Army had? Then the came the busted handgun. Now this monstrosity. The Army would fuck up a wet dream if you let them.

Non whites can't shoot. Watched a philipeno shoot the flight deck 5 feet in front of him with an m14 when we had to qualify while deployed. Natural affinity for marksmanship falls loosely along racial lines with outliers that get dei faggots quivering. "But but- that brown guy can shoot!"

Looks like a toy, what does it do differently from the ar15?

would require a complete ammunition overhaul of the the US military's arsenal which would be tremendously expensive

yeah being incompatible with the ammo you have in your basement to barter with after the collapse is the most important feature, it means if terrorists ever acquire the weapons and saw off the trackers they still wont be able to use them

That looks gay as fuck. The H&K 416 is infinitely cooler. Fuck it, the M4A1 is infinitely cooler.

Makes a jew extremely rich.

Im surprised Trump hasnt mandated they use the Galil, cause all he does is suck Israel's dick.

The real answer these retards don't know is because it's running at crazy fucking pressures, over 80k PSI in the chamber and supposedly can handle up to 125k
They needed this for the new bimetal casing/rounds to increase the fps and also have a longer range gun (that's a lesson learned in Afghanistan btw - engagement range matters, a lot, when you have sightlines over 500m)

Still can't defeat level IV tho lol

to shoot well you need a quiet mind and the ability to really see things and be present in the moment. browns and such, being more like animals and lacking internal monologue, are naturally better at shooting in the beginning. Whites may take a little longer to master the required internal restraints but in the end usually wind up excelling, as they do in all other things.

No you don't, it's traveling at like 3300 fps out of the barrel

It's a failure and a waste of time and money. Just accept that the M4 is the pinnacle of gunpowder-based infantry small arms, and nothing is going to top it until you come up with usable rail gun carbines or GI Joe lasers.
All of the shit about not being able to get hits on sandniggers on the other side of a mountain valley or not being able to defeat Chink/Russian rifle plates is irrelevant because it's 2025 and the new meta is just strap a mortar to a drone and drop it on those guys from the safety of your bunker miles away.

until you come up with usable rail gun carbines or GI Joe lasers.

BOLTERS!

why dont they just have a couple extra guys with the long range sniper rifles or whatever?

There are all sorts of doctrines on these sorts of decisions that all have pros and cons.

I actually think 7.62x39mm is an underachieving cartridge. There seems to be certain "goldilocks zones" for bullet diameters around .22, .30, .45, and .50 though and with each one there are tradeoffs. In many ways that .30 diameter zone makes alot of sense for an all purpose rifle whether the 7.62×39 was an underachieving round or not. It has been so popular and appealing for a reason. Particularly if yiu are trying to have a one-round do it all type of thing.

Then you have a different methodology behind the .555 AR, smaller lighter high velocity round for small arms. Which makes alot of sense and over time as it was refined turned out to be a very effective if not unconventional approach co.pared to the more conventional idea that .30 diameter is the butter zone for these types of weapons. And surely if you had a well designed .30 diameter cartridge you couldn't really go wrong as a general matter. I personally don't see why they are so hung up on this single round to do it all stuff though. I think the .556 for smaller arms and then a larger .30 diameter for different applications. I mean that's the whole point different applications should naturally require different rounds. That doesn't mean you have 12 different one but having two or three for various applications makes more sense to me. Especially if you are going to negate all the benefit anyways of ease in logistics by designing a complicated composite boondoggle like the .277.

Yeah but a 300 grain JFN at 2,000fps gets just as much muzzle energy though.

This is a good post
The 6mm ARC would've been a better choice just because of weight/magazine size vs end ballistics, all they really needed was a 5.56 variant that could remain reliably accurate at 800+m, which 6mm ARC does very well because it stays hypersonic longer

The optic is super duper cool but like anything you hand to grunts the final field test for durability should really be throwing it at a monkey til the monkey gets mad and tries to smash it. If it still works hand it to the 11b

just use a 338 bolt gun

Shot my buddies Lapua, it is my next build but is getting expensive but the lack of recoil and precision accuracy blew me away.

It's gay, it sucks and is shit, it breaks parts easily because of overpressure rounds, it's made of jeet pot metal, it's heavy, troops hate using it and carrying it, they can't carry as much ammo, most engagements happen within 300M so the army should just use the new shellshock technologies hybrid NAS3 cases that allow for higher velocity without much increase in wear and teach better marksmenship and stick to 5.55 AR's with better components, Sig is ran by a kike and they get all their contracts with a retired general's connections + undercutting the competition by egregious amounts, also the P320 is a piece of shit and I hope the company that is a gunsoomer household value trash chink products galore shit show goes away after being sued into oblivion from countless P320s NDing and causing injuries.

For now because orks can't into technology so we haven't seen drones utilized properly. Consider that one F35 costs $80M and one quadcopter drone costs $500. Which is more dangerous, the fancy airplane or a coordinated swarm of 164,000 drones?

will it suit trump’s needs?

Yes, because the CEO of Sig Sauer is a jew

M4s on Mars.

it's totally unnecessary

It’s less than ideal but if they are seeing longer ranges the trade off are worth it to modernize to a new standard. The cool parts of the program are the sight and the lmg that come with it to get rid of the 240b

front line soldiers

they are getting drone'd anyways
We give em our cheap surplus stuff (see marines hurr first ones in, last ones out)
Lowers our losses that way (Money (any amount) is worth more than grunt lives)

The rifle has nothing to do with drumpthf, but the optic is fantastic. They should have just used 6.5creed for the round, though. The extra power isn't worth the issues that will come with 80k psi

ooh its a 6.8x51mm, an upgrade. Shes a beautiful gun.

The optic is super duper cool

range enemy

get hit by rpg because the 'invisible' laser gave you away

the optic is fantastic

I recently read a report that it's not doing too hot either and vortex is running into issues with them.

that forearm looks like a Bionicle part
colour palette too

having two or three for various applications makes more sense to me.

same here, and im not gun knower. But, i get a gun because of what it can do well. .22 for small varmint and plinking, shotgun for shorter range power, spread and home defense in general. id probably pick a single larger caliber for large game and long distance target, which i like. thats 3 different guns for 3 different purposes. id love a 50 caliber rifle but they are pricey and also, here, banned :-(. seems there are enough guys in the army that you could stand to have a few different rifles included in every group, with everyone training on them all at some point. one tool can never do everything you want it to do.

Case for the AUG

most troops are mechanized, making overall length very important

Far more reliable than any AR-15 variant

1/3 the total number of parts - fewer points of failure and parts to stock

Heavy profile barrel can sustain a high rate of fire for longer

full auto mode way more useful

this guy can shoot to 900 meters with his pistol. i wanna know what kind of optics you are using and what caliber.

It's a fantastic rifle, just like the new service pistol.

It's already stalled and the various branches are refusing to sell of stockpiles of parts for M platform rifles.
The reason why is because it's expensive for no reason, not accurate, still has to use a penetrator, doesn't penetrate any better than DMRs with AP, the ammo is heavier and you can't carry as much, they're harder and more expensive to maintain, parts are unobtanium in fieldable amounts for mobilized forces etc etc etc.

tl;dr it only has one purpose and can't do it better than your SAW operator with a change in ammo

Cost per kill is not the point. There's a secret to all of this "unnecessary" military spending that you don't seem to understand; deterrence. You don't build F35s and carrier groups and nuclear submarines so that you can fight WWIII - you build all of that shit so that you DON'T HAVE TO fight WWIII. That's the real point of this eighty year exercise of an arms race. That's why military spending and R&D is the way it is. The cold hard truth is that if we ever have to use any of this shit in any real capacity (totalen krieg) then everyone is just getting nuked anyway.

Kel-tec is kind of cool and semi-swedish

SAW operator

it isn't a machine gun tho. it would be replaced my the mk-12 if you ask me the mk-12 does everything this does but better.

I would've thought you had deployed, based on how accurate that was lol
I personally think 6mm ARC >Grendel, but yeah

I also think its possible that we literally might see power armor analogues using 50 BMG in a design similar to that meme gun AK50 in 30 years or so as shock troops

id love a 50 caliber rifle but they are pricey and also, here, banned

how about a .50 cal muzzle loader? surely those cant be banned and are pretty fun to shoot

Gun is too long, too heavy and doesn't like sand or mud.

Lies, it was designed for trenches by people who knew WW2. Simple, reliable, easy to service. It's NATO's AK.
Plus they would have to go 7.62 nato which requires more marksmen training
Lies, it does not.
and is basically useless at full auto unless you're a gigachad.
Every white aryan should be able to handle such a weapon. If you can't handle it, then you are not white and therefore you only deserve a broomstick at most. Besides, science should be able to do something about it now.

2000rd bolt and barrel life

i fucking said so
i said the only way SIG would meet the specs with a conventional rifle if they pulled something like this but ofc Anon Babble troons called me a Russian agent

No shit. It's been used by Marines for a few years now, took a while for negative reports to come out.
I'm sure they'll iron out the problems. Version 1.0 of anything has issues.

The reason I brought that up is because of how logistics in the US military works for outfitting. Unless they were sending in only a couple guys to do CQC firing through solid barriers the Sig literally has no place.
In a regular outfit they would just keep the 3X ammo for volume of fire in smaller caliber and change ammo in support weapons.

900m lmao no obviously not. Maybe 100m. I never said I could though wise guy.

But yeah the point is- you'd think if you are going to go through the trouble for an high pressure composite cartidge logistical boondoggle you'd at least get way more muzzle energy than a big handgun kek.

It's all the drawbacks of a .30 diameter rifle cartridge with only one of the major benefits and the additional cost of a boondoggle composite cartridge.

Expensive ammo

The new high tech scope that comes with it sucks and is heavy adding more weight to the gun and more wasted tax payer money

Due to the high pressure of the 6.8 round since it is being fired out of a silenced 13 inch barrel (why the barrel so retardly short) it wears down both the barrel and the silencer super fast

Can only use 20 round mags and troops carry less ammo

Ambidextrous magazine release makes it so if you press the gun against your body you might accidently release your mag out of of your gun by mistake

Not as accurate as you would like it to be

Did I mention the gun is heavy and gets even heavier with a loaded mag plus all the other attachments on it

When the problem with the rifle are brought before SIG their only response is "no it isn't" and ends all discussion there

etc. etc.

Troops that have used it give it mixed reviews most of them negative and a lot simply saying just give me my M4 back. The XM7 rifle is an overengineered boondoggle that the military is wasting tax payer money on. Wouldn't surprise if SIG "donated" money to the right people to get it adopted in the first place considering the rifle kind of came out of no where. If anything it would make for an okay designated marksmen rifle (although there are better options) but as a mass produced service rifle......no.

youtube.com/watch?v=hTqZZMeb7w0

Their gay machine gun must be smooth bore then.
Sig had to suck a lot of cock to get this far.

The only point of Grendel is updating a 7.62x39 with a more modern cartridge. No reason to use it in a new platform.

The DOD could have had 80% of what they wanted in 6.5creed without reinventing the wheel and adding a ton of unnecessary recoil.

AK was actually always inferior at cycling in mud than the AR.

Even you don't believe it.

I remember hearing 8k to 12k rds / barrel. I also remember not believing that because pressure and bore size are what causes erosion

I realized it after I posted what you meant. There were only so many guns with 7.62 and in the squads it was your SAW gunners. That makes sense. I still stand by what I said though in that the mk-12 does everything better but losing a rifleman for a marksman only makes sense in certain situation IMO. If you are making tactical moves I want my riflemen and maybe like a couple marksman to touch the really far or hard targets.

That one from Mattel, too?

I don't buy it. proofs.

This garbage rifle was approved by Biden. An anti-gun nut should not be the supreme overseer of the country's military weapons. This garbage rifle with it's garbage high velocity round will eat rifle's short barrels like candy. There's so many thing wrong with Sig's rifle. General Dynamic's Bullpup is a next generation rifle and should have won, >>>>>>specially<<<<<< when the USA is hellbent on this 6.8x51 high velocity round. The Bullpup can be issue a 16" barrel and still be short enough to for all intent and purposes a carbine DESPITE THE 16" BARREL. Soooo many positives with the DN Bullpup rifle to safely ignore the mild criticisms some detractors may have.

Have you ever used a LRF before? It's not like a PEQ where it throws a constant beam for night targeting, and it doesn't (or shouldn't) be throwing a constant beam back to your location
And the gimmick, supposedly, with the targeting system is that it blips so fast human obs (so the guy with the rocket launcher) can't see it
I could see it being a problem once AI gets involved tho, but AR goggles that interpret data at that level and discretion are probably pretty far off still
They can't even make a pair dudes want to wear yet

one guy who tested them said 5k and the rifling was gonzo. lol

everything is ugly and lame.

SIG and the army say 10k but some guy wrote that they were gonna lot sooner.

lol, yeah i suppose that would be fun. id have to check. not sure if the .50 ban was specific rifles or the caliber in general. in its stead i shoot slugs from the 870 and see if i can hit things far away. when im working again i'll look into what best for a good general purpose larger caliber rifle for deer, moose, bear and 1000+ yard targets. some reading to do. would you have a preference?

bullpups are iconic and cool but the reloading will never not be unergonomic.

Its true. The AK tends to do better than the AR in ice but the AK is worse in mud. There's so many of these bozo torture tests online and they always tell the same story.

When the mud is allowed to get inside of the action, the AKs tend to not fully seat after firing. And it makes sense because the bolt is so much more open in the AK and just let's too much in vs the AR which has a much more sealed bolt. Also what they notice is that the AR tends to actually blow mud back out of the bolt and the AK doesn't. The inverse of this is probably why the AK does better in ice. That tight sealed bolt in the AR just doesn't handle getting bound up by frozen moisture as well as the lower tolerance more open AK design.

never not be unergonomic

is unergonomic. sorry guys i didn't eat breakfast.

There's a ton of these but here is a good one with alot of different actions.

youtu.be/e-kE_wbGLhE?si=sveuX7xM7n6I-YV6

the jews at sig lied

people will be held accountable for this. Starting with holding my breath now

do you really believe that? post a link to one of your bozo tests.

garand thumb

Negative. Dismissed.

That's why I'm inclined to believe it was a money laundering scam for financiers. There are more than a dozen rifles in various calibers they have access to for situations where this new rifle would fit the bill and cost them jack shit because they're already in the arsenal.
Unless you're in a forest grenade machine guns mounted on FAVs work way fucking better than rifles for breaking into an assault.

Muzzle loader is fine. It doesn't hit the joule limit, which is something like 10k. So no 700 Nitro, 410 Barret, 50 centerfire. The 338 just squeezes under at the 9.3k/9.8k, depends how you load it though. Dumb government bullshit all the same.

looks pretty kino desu senpai, I would grind to get the diamond camo

Keep in mind when we say sig we mean the amerimutt sig and not the OG Sig Sauer from Europe.

Show bobs and vagene, i inform you to know that i have much semen,

that was the best season by far. The battles on the moon. Also the Mrs Robinson stuff

You're supposed to speak Farsi or Dari, like a proper German.

The supposedly faster reloading is not excuse enough to chose a rifle that eats barrels like candy, have less ammo and is heavy.

that's a long-term evolution possible with the new optics system. I don't believe we will actually see this in my lifetime.

That show was fucking cancerous and female astronauts are a meme

the NGSW programme was supposed to force gunmakers to move away from conventional designs, preferably to telescoped ammunition which the other contenders did
then came SIG of America handing out bribes wearing a trollface mask
instead of actually innovating, they submitted a gucci'd up conventional gun that nominally meets the NGSW standard* but is designed with amortizing components, forcing operators to send the gun back to the manufacturer every couple 1000 rds (2 as it stands) for refurbishment
from a business standpoint, it's pure genius, they've invented the Rifle As A Subscription Service
as long as it uses ammo that's so prohibitively expensive that the army had to order a dumbed down practice round (that performs about as well as 270 win)

bro tell me you watched that video.

just have your customers beta test it

Lmao sig is the jewish bethesda of the gun world.

You must be still able to taste the german semen your great grandmothers gurgled.

The autism of the TV owner pushing for the faggot meme polymer ammo and typical sig dicksucking/planned failure is why this got shelved. They'll never actually produce them all they need to do is chamber it in 556 and gas it for shellshock with non flow through suppressors

Look I dont endorse any of these guntuber clowns- but watch the video and tell me what was wrong with the test kek. Just play it at 2.00 speed if you want idc.

Maybe you bought into vidya memes about guns but there are many of these things that show the same thing. When mud gets inside the AK action it doesn't like to fully seat after firing.

Just watch it, when he does the second half and mud gets inside the action the AKs have a worse tendency to choke up.

I know, the other two designs were interesting.
And the sigfags come around with a fucking piston AR.

You must be still able to taste The Liberator's (you will write that word with capital "L") semen your great grandmothers (and possible grandfathers) gurgled.

1000+ yard targets

might be hard with a muzzleloader lol, but for the best range and accuracy maybe consider knight or traditions
CVA is great too especially for the price

reloading will never not be unergonomic.

This fucking retarded idea that rang etrick reloads have any actual application to combat rifles is the peak of keyboard operator faggot shit

338

Supposedly we're replacing 50cal with 338. I really don't consider 338 to be anti-material, but maybe we're shifting that to rockets or something

I would have kicked sig out of the trials just for being a shitty company. GD was the best choice. If we were going with something like the sig, I would much rather it be manufactured by FN

You mongol slavniggers never got close to where my family is from. You should thank us for the 10 extra IQ points you inherited.

kick out a company run by a jew

Are you mad? Although I'm not sure if the other two are run by jews...

What happens when mud gets inside AR, einstein? And why do you even need forward assist? When shit gets inside a mechanism it gets jammed, surprise!

shifting that to rockets

At least your taxes are wasted on cool shit.

the only reason why general dynamics rifle didn't pass was because it was a bullpup design. something about needing to retraining every company that was running m4 platforms or some bullshit lie like that.

So you were good at fleeing? Worked for you, it seems.

Against a peer enemy they dont expect soldiers to survive to fire more than 2000 rounds.

Correct me if I wrong but all of the finalists were pushing meme ammos (composite or polymer).

why do you need forward assist

Majority of guns have a forward assist, the AR being the main one without. Occasionally your BCG may not go into battery, it gets stuck by one CM. How do you get it into battery? Without a forward assist you lose a round. Or you just tap the forward assist a few times and it's in battery.

Yeah but since ar are better at keeping it out in the first place it does better.

sig US sucks. The jew just means we're paying too much for shit that sucks. Look at sigs ongoing drop safe issues with their pistols.

The polymer casing can probably also be changed to brass but if they can get the polymer casing to work then they can carry way more ammo and ammo in these times of drones is an invaluable asset for troops. Also if they were so hellbent on the familiar platform then why not just go for 308 and avoid the ridiculous expensive Sig rifle? Seems like the US was just hellbent on giving a contract to Sig.

i'm not even American and i'm still mad
after like 60 years, there was finally a chance for a leap in technology
but greed, bribes and political clout killed it

why do you even need forward assist

Navy didn't think it was necessary.
Rittenhouse did.

drop safe issues

It's not just drop safety, it's unintended discharge which is horrifying. A man in PA actually lost his life because their shitty gun was in his holster, went off, and shot his leg and killed him.

He literally dumps the mud in like 7 different actions kek. And its clear that the AR cycles better than the AK in these conditions. This isnt the only example of a test like this either. The AK just has a more open bolt that also doesn't blow quite as much of the mud out of the action as well. And this makes logical sense really when you think about it.

Anyways, I dont fan boy any action or gun. Honestly I like them all. What is funny to me are these memes that get ingrained that are not accurate. Perhaps people's regional pride comes into play and they cope and seethe idk. It doesn't pain me at all to say the AK does better in ice conditions. You know why? Because wheb they test it its the truth kek? Why would I feel the need to cope about it? I didn't design the motherfucker.

Yeah it is a very weak excuse. The polymer casing, if they can get it to work can be a game changer but a big problem is manufacturing too so

338

good info. guess thats where i might look for what i want. and yes, huge bullshit lacking all reason and evidence.

AK

I really want a drop in non reciprocating charging handle for the AK (left side). It seems like it's doable.

See I didn't want any leaps. I just wanted some more refining on what we had.

Look at modern cars. Too much complexity for marginal gains in performance. We would have just been better off perfecting OBS chevys for another 20 years.

Phasing out the 50 for 338

That's almost retarded enough to believe they'd try it.

You'll hammer it, making the gun jam even harder. It's bullshit.
This anon knows.
He legit places chunks of mud on cover. Of course it'll get inside. Of course the gun will jam. But then the same will happen to AR platform.

Nah, Trump will kill this deal and have a US company make our weapons, I'd take Hi-Point or PSA over eurotrash fag weapons any day.

You'll hammer it, making the gun jam even harder. It's bullshit.

Have you ever even held an AR in your life? The FA does exactly what it's supposed to do.

Bullshit. Once something enters an AR rifle it's over it won't cycle while the AK will just keep going.

Is it supposed to jam the gun?

My brother in Christ, just watch the video. He does one test where he just throws them in the mud and they generally all cycle.

He does a second test where he dumps the mud in the action and the AKs struggle whereas the ARs perform notably better.

Correct. The polymer was a particularly bad concept but all the whizbang fundamental restructuring of ammo was all a waste. Plenty of modern conventional cartridges that could extend lethality and capabilities. Especially when matched to a 19+ inch barrel in a bullpup

Why the fuck would it jam the gun? It pushes the bolt into place.

You literally lost to houthis, twice. You lost air superiority to goatfuckers
who fight in sandals with ak's that havent been cleaned since the 90's.

Oh yeah, I forgot about the recent rash of in-holster detonations. I'm pretty sure SIG was suing people for defamation for claiming they're unsafe just a few years ago.

A very jewish company

The us army is a joke not picking this!

I just want a full caliber VHS-2, that would be neat.

You didn't kill my enemies you fucking filthy goyim!

Boo hoo faggot.

ARs have an advantage in that flap cover. What if something happen to go inside sucked by that same flap cover when it cycles back? The test GT performed does not cover enough scenarios.

OD'ing on memes is a hell of a thing. Seriously though just think about it in terms of mud intrusion into the action- the AR bolt is so much more sealed and the open bolt just let's too much in and doesn't blow enough back out.

There are literally hundreds of hours of footage of people putting this shit to the test too. Again the AK tends to do notably better in ice though.

Seems like the US was just hellbent on giving a contract to Sig

More or less this. Lots of lobbying and back dealing and steak dinners.
The polymer would be good if combat wasnt taking place around all kinds of ungodly solvents and 200° temp range variations. The idea of useable polymer ammo is interesting but the platform never should have been married to it
And there were actually a lot of trials years and years and years ago that identified a good ammo upgrade that of course was ignored because it was too practical and could have been implemented within 2 years.
Our military is gay as fuck

It seems like they're trying to have everything in the Pentagon run off of three calibers, which might make sense from a logistics standpoint, but would definitely not be as effective.

sorry, my fault to expect reading comprehension from an american.

ARs actually have probably a better dust cover than the AK. The AR is truly sealed and the bolt assembly is just so much tighter inside the action even when the cover is open. The AK dust cover doesn't really seal anything and it has that big open bolt action too. It's just worse for mud- but to fair better for other things.

They have a bad reputation because of the P320 going off all the time. You go to a gun show and you're "this is a really nice pistol" but then it's a hard no.

Fudd-tier meme

DI will blow anything out that entered the breach when the bolt was closed. If open, it depends. Same as an AK.

The ACR was a great design for 556 operating through mud and sand, too bad Remington fucked it up

I'd still prefer an AK. You can unfuck it easier. Maybe make a contraption to clean it fast.

Yeah look I dont hate on either one tbqh, I would probably personally prefer the AR for a number of reasons. There are pros and cons though obviously.

Automatic fire control with smart targeting fed info from networked systems.

Wave the stick in the direction and the computer fires automatically when it passes over the mark.

it`s already a thing in prototype being tested now
youtube.com/watch?v=D_lihTHsRxk

Nigga, we already have anti-drone drones. The age of the tank and rifle is over except for trench sweeping.

Doesn't matter, really. It's all so meaningless in modern warfare, when you only need a gun that kinda does it's job. Most of the killing done by artillery anyway. It's all just Cold War arms race penis measuring contest by the end of the day. I mean, I'm not against AR either. Most of modern infantrymen wouldn't even notice if they were issued modern AKs instead of modern ARs or vice versa.

>ammo is unobtanium

don't even actually know what this thing shoots, but if govt were to adopt it, I'm rather certain we'd be able to tool up production for its ammo. This is one of the few things US has always been pretty good at.

Yeah I hear you but at the same time I just feel like its a mistake to assume that every single circumstance is going to be some high tech professional military conflict. There are a whole range of situations out there particularly for people who are just civilians.

>full power combat ammo it's designed around that only the military can buy

Maybe in your country this is the case?

Except the ammo is pointlessly overly complicated and requires way more steps and thus QC to manufacture. It's a multi metal bullet, a multi piece case with different metal components etc etc
It's fucking stupid. The us military loves to buy a problem so they can pay someone to fix it

Oh, well that is stupid. Probably still solvable, but stupid, nonetheless.

What kind of situations will have you slap chunks of mud on your rifle?

Why is the us military buying guns from europe?

5.7

solvable

Well yeah. Drop the chamber pressure 20k psi to fall in the range of hot conventional military loads and extend the barrel 7" to get the needed muzzle velocity. Which goes back to what the fuck was the point. It'll be the next SCAR "Oh this is neat. Give me back my M4"

Sig has a US division. Which is why they have so many half assed fucking guns now

Honestly I can see the appeal I live in a swamp.

You don't need a rifle, Shrek.

Isn't that the fault of their european management? American guns I've owned have been great. Relying on a foreign country and potential enemy for our weapons is not so great.

integrated suppressor

Only gear queers and Hollywood shitlibs give one fuck. Fuck's sake a suppressor on a front-line rifle is a fucking liability not an advantage.

improved armor-piercing properties

Nope. Class 3 armor will stop it as readily as it stops .223 and both will blow right through 3A.

Sig USA Inc is it's own company completely stood up to try and capture US military contracts. There are plenty of quality US firearms manufacturers. Sig USA is not one of them/exist specifically to wheel and deal inside the beltway

Well now that Biden fucked up and choose this retarded rifle, what are the chances Trump undo it and chose a not retarded rifle?

ok but who are you even attacking with your drones if there are no men with rifles or tanks to fire drones at? serious question.

anyways this tech could be expanded beyond drones to shooting soldiers as well. smart scopes will make everyone an expert marksman pulling off sniper level accuracy on the move.

integrated with supressor

The suppressor is detachable. I don't know if you know what integrated suppressor means
See above. Also

a suppressor on a front-line rifle is a fucking liability not an advantage.

is one of the most /neverserved/ things I've ever read on this shithole. also the military round (much higher my and a different bullet) was absolutely designed to penetrate modern body armor

No.
It fails on the simple notion that it weighs as much as an LMG and you can't carry as much ammo.

Nuh uhh. It's 9 pounds.

Naked. It weighs 9 pounds unloaded and without any attachments.

This should have been one of the first things DOGE or some kind of dod specific accountability office should have looked in to and collected expert testimony for

*high mv not my

We're probably going to end up with new ammunition.
Not the Sig Sauer blend of hybrid case but NAS3 casings.

You can get a few hundred extra FPS with NAS3 without needing to overbuild the gun for it.

NAS3 casings

badlandsmunitionsco.com/product/5-56-s-s-55gr-193-ammo/
phantomdefense.co/5-56-tink-77-gr-tmk-nas3-50-ct/

Has anyone done a long term test to see if there's enhanced extractor wear on that stuff? It looks promising as long as there's a mindset change that barrels are a wearable item. The MV is still going to enhance barrel wear and gas port erosion but honestly I don't think 50k rounds between replacement should be a goal

I was watching ballistics videos on 6.8 and 6.5 and they perform similarly but the 6.8 doesn't have the retarded barrel eater 80k PSI bullet.

it's the usual meme of something being better but not so much better that the DOD wants to go through the hassle of producing millions of them and swapping out their entire supply chain. They do these things every several years and the conclusion is always the same, and this will probably end up the same way

Not yet.

I expect AR-15 bolts to crack from them. Ruger would probably be the best company to have AR-15's that can survive long term abuse since they made .308 work in them with the SFAR.

Let me guess you need more

It was pretty amusing how the muhreens backdoored their way to a new service rifle by pretending to replace the SAW. Everybody really shat on them for it at the time, but the M27/M38 approach ended up being overwhelmingly less retarded than what this SIG debacle has turned out to be.

I doubt the president has much say in Pentagon issues like light arms

Many of not most of the FPV drones are aimed at other FPV operators

The Taiwanese T91 is actually neat. Korean Daewoo is kinda junk but interesting concept.

move aside retards, chad has entered the room

Trump was the one who spearheaded the whole thing so why Biden got to chose the rifle?

Right?

I doubt Biden chose the rifle. Trump is just being Trump by taking credit for it. The Pentagon has been fucking with trying to replace the m4 since 2005, but light arms have little overall impact on war, especially when the Navy is always wanting something new for their subs.

I heard this thing is not as glorious as it's portrayed and that Browning HP is better.

its a new type called "battle rifle"
no more ar(assault rifle)

and soon the drones wont need fpv operators. so if there are no rifles, no tanks, and no fpv operators in the war of the future and drones are anti-tank and anti-infantry weapons then what are we launching drones against in future war? other drones?

i think drones with guns that sit and get recharged and resupplied by other drones will clear an area and then occupy it. swarms of autonomous drones with no men on the front lines at all. any men or tanks trying to enter combat getting btfo immediately. and every war will just be a contest of who can make and deploy more and better drones. the drone factories being far from the front lines, decentralized, and easily replaced making them a poor target.

Literally yes other drones. It's already happening. Russia deployed an anti-drone drone which can be launched by hand or using a launcher

That is what people thought 45 years ago, yes.

How is Trump taking credit for it? Trump started the research for a new rifle and then Biden approved the terrible Sig rifle. If the Russia/Ukraine war has taught us something is that ammo is important in the battlefield. Yes, I remember the XM8. Nothing came out of that.

The gun is good; but the round it fires is kind of stupid. The reinforced case idea which allows it to fire hotter ammunition at higher velocity is neat; but switching to a new caliber rather than just redesigning 7.62 or 5.56 NATO is silly. By the same token we tried standardizing a full power battle rifle as our service rifle back in the 1950s with the M14 and it didn't work and we ended up adopting the M16.

They should keep the gun, make a new 7.62 NATO round with the reinforced casing design so that the gun can fire standard 7.62 or the new extra spicy version. Then deploy it as a designated marksman rifle in squads while keeping part of the squad using intermediate caliber rifle carbines like M4s in 5.56 or possibly in .300 Blackout.

So to clarify why I think the round is stupid, its TOO powerful. Its super loud so you need to have suppressors standard and your average GI is going to struggle to control it. By the same token the gun has to be heavier to fire it so your entire squad is going to be carrying more weight.

My understanding is that its a reaction to some new Russian body armor that hasn't been deployed; but is in experimental stages. It could also be a reaction to drones and being introduced in anticipation of needing a heavy armor piercing round to deal with kill bots.

Regardless I still think replacing every carbine with a full power battle rifle is a bad idea.

The Pentagon has been going through this for 20 years, ever since the average engagement distance of 300m proved shitty for 556 in Afghanistan. Guys in the North were issued m14s. We ran through this shit in 2007. Then the Pentagon determined that we should just add better DMRs to each platoon - which went through several iterations (scar mk20, HK mr308, etc), and then back to trying to find a permanent solution.

Maybe somebody at the DOD said this should be prioritized, and Trump said something making it happen, I don't know. It certainly wasn't Trump's idea. At least I hope he's doing more important stuff than worrying about infantry rifles.

i`m imagining several kinds of drones

anti-infantry drones with guns

anti-armor kamikaze drones

and they`ll basically camp out somewhere and seldom be used but still important so the enemy is denied the ability to deploy infantry and tanks.

resupply drones to deliver ammo and reload gun drones

power drones. maybe they land somewhere and deploy solar panels and other drones come to them. or maybe they`re just flying generators resupplied by fuel carrying drones

and the star of the show that will do the bulk of the fighting

anti-drone drones designed specifically for supremacy against other drones

oh and maybe a stealth drone bomber that flies over a battlefield and airdrops a bunch of drones. and larger dogfighting jet drones to guard them and attack other drone bombers. and drone delivery vehicles, wheeled and tracked, to deliver drones where the enemy has too much air cover. maybe some repair robots as well that are deployed to repair and maintain drones in the field probably like robot dogs with at least two arms and a bunch of tools

but there are also new electronic weapons that arent jamming they`re actually frying the electronics of drones at a distance so that will factor in somewhere as well. vehicle mounted and defending against swarms
youtube.com/shorts/1tbSQzPUSnI

at the end of the day armed men and vehicles with men in them will just get in the way. it could be a good thing really, an end to men dying in war and it just becoming drone on drone.

To be fair it might be more important in the war that’s probably gonna be happening in Europe or maybe China. M16 was better at the time since it did better in very hot, humid environments where ounces became pounds on long range patrols.

It's true about the US government looking for a new rifle for many years but I remember the XM8 and how it went nowhere and then nothing until Trump and link related. I am just concerned about a bad president like Biden who hates guns and want to ban them choosing a terrible rifle so Americans die in case of a war for being badly equipped. You should also be concerned but for some reason you are not.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Generation_Squad_Weapon

I can't wait to see what scandal breaks in 10 years with siggers. they're so blatantly scummy.

i forgot reconnaissance drones. probably hybrid drones that can switch from winged mode for long distance and hover mode for dense urban and forested areas. and small reconnaissance drones that sit and wait with a camera somewhere.
basically a dozen different drone models at most, for different tasks, all being mass produced. and some automated vehicles and larger jets too

i wish i was american lol canadian guns are so fucking lame

American politicians dont hate guns for the government they want them to have a monopoly on the best guns.

FIRE OFF ALL SIGS! FOR GREAT JUSTICE!

Sig Sauer USA is run by (((Ron Cohen)))

I like the Spear.
I'm... hesitant to trust Sig after their recent shenanigans. But I've shot the Spear in 5.56 and .308 and own a Regulator and it was pretty cool.

Saab Bofors is Swedish and makes all kind of guns, planes, and ships.

You're getting deported, retard.

$1k

Lol. Lmao, even.
Try $4k.

Contract demanded that suppressors were standard

Ask me how I know a shit ton of these are going to get "lost" in the field
Ask me how I know the people who said a suppressor needs to be standard has never worked with a suppressor

XM7 is the rebranding of the XM5.

uhm... why?

Because fuck you, that's why. Sheboon civilian employees at the Pentagon need dey jobs.