Non-Islamic World

In your opinion, how the world would look like without Islam? What would happen to Sassanian Persia, the Byzantines and Europe? Would the world be more peaceful or something even worse would show up?

I’d be a pagan, probably worshipping kali and the society that my family’s ethnic group comes from would be mostly matriarchal. Which would be omega fucking gay

It'd be cool to have paganism still around. We were mostly pagan and christian before Islam's arrival.

Yeah, but the “matriarchal” part isn’t
I’ve seen how they function. The dudes are just petty gossipy bitches who don’t eat meat

All the muslim shitholes that exist now would still be shitholes. Indonesia and the Philippines are basically the same country despite one being muslim and the other being catholic

tftp

Well looks like you are cursed either way as you live as a sodium poisoned ogre in America

Jews wouldn't have been kicked out of Spain and then ruined the New World, Netherlands, England and the rest of the world eventually.

MENA would look like Latin America or something like that, might not reach Europe's level but still has little potential.

You couldn’t make it here. Australia is like tutorial difficulty for immigration
Anyways I’m headed to double bay in a few years, maybe we’ll meet but I doubt your parents are that set up

It'd be cool to have paganism still around

no it wouldnt. the equivalent of modern paganism is gem women.
i hate the hecking SCIENCE take but it has completely destroyed paganism as a real religion. we dont have to pray to rain gods to make it rain when we have the technology to make it rain on command. we dont need to sacrifice goats for good luck in the upcoming battle. paganism is a psyop to turn retards away from christianity

To be fair it was previously $1 million, but Trump jacked up the price of the golden visa

oh you mean like that, sure definitely USA isnt easy to get into legally with full status

Crime doesn’t pay. Reporting people who came illegally does

no islam means no arab invasion means more white/aryan mediterranean/persia . I dont think much would change other than some meager amount of wealth flowing among christian trade instead of for muslim wars. nafri/arabia are still pisspoor in terms of resources. possibly they even end up poorer because of less aggressive tariffs across the silk road

Not only it ruined the Middle East, Europe would be way more developed than today. The dark ages was a consequence of cutting Europe from the south Mediterranean which Romans desperately needed for grains, there was famine because the Byzantines lost North Africa, also the European ships suffered from piracy from Muslims.

Reporting people who came illegally does

is that a general statement on illegals sapping the economy or is there a bounty on them?

Can you imagine how many people died in the religious wars between Christianity and Islam? And it turns out that Islam is just a Zionist conspiracy?

The immediate purpose of Islam was to make whites "submit" and the main long term purpose of Islam is that it is a Zionist conspiracy

I think the pay out from the tip line is $1000
Some anon made a thread about how he reported dozens of people and was expecting money for it, not sure if he got any however

thats based as hell i might change career paths
also spain would either not exist and iberia would have 8 countries not 2 or they may have continued with the wealth the romans gave them and be the superpower instead of britain. it didnt take long after reconquista for them to reach world hegemon status but that unity of spain might have never come to pass without the muslims to unite against.
either way morocco is spanish

i think the immediate purpose of islam was to have a casus beli on neighbouring arab states. do you think it was anti-white from the beginning or was that a consequence of islam being anti-christian(anti-white) and coming into contact with the christians

If the Europeans still discovered the new world, I don't think the Silk road would be relevant anymore like today.

Would the world be more peaceful

definitely

see there wouldnt have been a scramble to find a way around islamic trade routes if islam didnt exist. maybe spain/portugal would have found it earlier without andalusia or they would have never had the drive to do so. hard question

Slay queen

un-clogged, as if they are feces...

Yeah, and probably Iberia would be united under the Visigoths or prob get annexed by the Franks.

1. sassanian persia

if dem arab conquistadors ain popped off n islam stayed sleepin, sassanian persia mighta kept flexin on da east, maybe fo a min. but hold up:

internal weakness: dem sassanians wuz already weak sauce, too much beefin in-house, holy wars poppin off (zoroastrians vs. christians n mani-homies), n straight-up tired asl from throwin hands wit byzantium.
wut coulda happened: deyda either shattered like cheap weave or got dey act together. mighta seen a new wave religion mashup, mazdakism 2.0 or zoroastrianism wit a glow-up.
long game: persia prolly ends up a broke-up clique of lil states, or byzantium/turkic hittas/indian ballers swoop in n snatch da crown.

2. byzantine empire

if dem muslims ain snatch egypt n da levant, byzantium woulda stayed stackin paper n flexin drippy mosaics.

cash flow stay lit: deyda kept dem big-money provinces (egypt n syria) on lock, keepin dat golden age vibes goin way longer.
church drama still poppin: chalcedonians vs. nestorians vs. monophysites, holy roller beef still turnt.
enemies still lurkin: slavs, bulgars, n later seljuks/mongol ogs woulda still tried da fade.
byzantium livin la vida loca: coulda stayed top dog in da med, savin all dem greek scrolls n makin tiktok tutorials on philosophy.

3. north africa & middle east

still greco-roman vibes but wit jesus-freaks runnin wild (copts, nestorians, etc.). no ummah? chaotic neutral, tribes, heretics, n holy wars 24/7. turkic hittas or chinese dynasty clout mighta slid in later.

4. europe

no islamic wave? europe woulda been lost in da sauce, fr.

no islamic golden age = europe stay dumb longer: all dat greek, persian, n indian knowledge dat came thru al-andalus n dem crusades? das a wrap. astronomy, medicine, philosophy, all dat woulda been movin in slo-mo, fr.
christian clout unchecked: wihout a common muslim opp, dem kings n popes mighta kept fightin dey selves or turned up on pagans/heretics.
crusades? nah, new hatin: deyda prolly started throwin hands wit byzantium or slavs instead.
renaissance? more like late-issance: no arabic translations? da glow-up woulda been mid, no cap.

5. global shookness

trade routes still lit: silk road bussin, but persia n china runnin da trap.
ottomans? never existed: byzantium n persia still holdin it down, columbus mighta stayed lost, n europes colonial grind changed da game.
new world who? if da ottomans ain blockin da east, maybe europe don even stumble on da americas.

6. world more peaceful?

hell nah.

violence don need allah: other holy clout (christian sects, zoroastrian crusades, pagan larpers) woulda filled da drama quota.
tech stagnation? no islamic libraries = newton still in diapers in 1600.

tl;dr:
no islam?

persia: still falls apart, weak energy.
byzantium: glow-up era extended.
europe: dumb n fragmented, renaissance late af.
islamic golden age missing: da worlds iq drops 50 points.
peace? nah, new opps, same oppression.

Holy shit are you some type of black AI?

Byzantines and Persians already had that knowledge and science, "Islamic golden age" was the result of the conquests of Persia, Greece and India. Even the Caliphate used Sassanian bureaucracy to run their empire. Though I can't tell how science would be today without Islam.

On the side note, Islam forbade depiction of living creatures seeing it as haram, so no painting, no statues. We would've had cool Middle Eastern art without Islam.

"Islamic golden age" was the result of the conquests of Persia, Greece and India

thank you for admitting this. the islamic golden age wasn't necessarily due to islamic though but instead a large area and long time of peace within

islamic thought*

The Ottoman empire was mostly run by Greek Muslims as well. It was another Byzantine dynasty by a different name.

are you a muslim or an apostate or some other version of moroccan?

I'm apostate, agnostic to be exact.

Yeah even the Ottoman monuments were built by Greeks and Armenians.

neat. any thoughts on moroccon life or religion you want to get off your chest? never talked with a nonmuslim nafri before, tell me more

islamic golden age

If the Romans had just exterminated the jews completely, the whole world would be a much better place.

MENA would look like Latin America or something like that

so it would be even worse?

Yeah as you know we're Muslim majority, our countries are less strict than the Middle East, though criticism of Islam or the government would get you in big trouble, many of us are becoming apostates but can't say it out loud. I just see islam as a burden, something that shouldn't have existed, that's why I made this thread. It ruined everything, our culture, our way of life. Berbers tried to revolt but didn't have the strength. We couldn't get our country back like the spaniards and portuguese did. You need to play along and pretend that Islam is great and our gov steal our wealth.

What's wrong with Latin America? You should be grateful you're bordering a Muslim country

Honestly, west was saved from the Mongols only because timing.
As said, Mamluks defeated them but they got a bit lucky too, but Mongols also were on the verge of logistical collapse, and they had to turn back anyway... and they got played hard.

thanks for the insight.

many of us are becoming apostates but can't say it out loud.

it would be nuts if you guys went secular and took in christian refugees from europe lol.

what a dumb thing to ponder. you realize that Islam was salvation of these places. what you see now is Islam after centuries of decadance . Islam a thousand years ago or whenever was their Golden Age was envy of the world. It was like the US. People lined up to become the next state.

nothing at all its a paradise

Judaism was dominating arabia so same thing will happen but instead of Islam it was going to be Judaism

Philippines shitholery is from Spanish influence. Look at every Spanish country, they're all violent shitholes. Indonesia is actually a bit better than the Philippines which is uniquely a shithole in the region. Spics are a fucking plague.

We have refugees from Subsaharan Africa and people treat them like shit. Yeah you can figure yourself.

I mean they don't present a threat, Latin America is a hellhole but they keep it to themselves, they don't try to invade other countries.

why wouldnt they be treated like shit?

so you just want to be a docile cuck shithole?

Spaniards are bad at colonization, look at British colonies they are all successful, even African British colonies are more successful than French or Spanish ones.

Without Islam, there would be no modern world, as the industrial revolution and the steam engine depended on discoveries in hydraulic engineering during the Islamic Golden Age.

Without Islam, we would not have modern physics or electronics, as al-gebra and al-gorithms are Islamic inventions and laid the foundations for Newton's work.

You would not be reading or writing let alone using this website without the Muslim world. You'd probably be toiling the soil for lords and caught between their endless petty wars.

We're a docile shithole, our king doesn't even live in Morocco and spends most of his time in France lol

so why were you complaining about posing a threat?

I mean Islam poses as a threat for sure. For everyone not only the West.

It ruined everything, our culture, our way of life.

I have tried explaining this to some anons from Egypt and some other ME country that I forgot, where I was trying to tell them that their pre-islamic culture is greater than whatever Islam gave them for all these years, especially when it comes to Egypt, and it feels like you're talking to a blanked-out NPC. The same applies to "Turks" being forced to abandon their Greek/Roman roots and to join the ummah shitskinnery and identify as one of them instead. Why the fuck would you ever downgrade from the Byzantine culture into the arabic one? This only leads to goofy schizophrenia like the creation of the false "Turk" identity which is worth even less than the arabic one. But it doesn't make sense to them because they're in a cult and they cannot understand that they're in one.

Christcucks are the same thing by the way, but they steal and lie instead of disowning. They disown the old pagan world by destroying the statues of the idolaters as is commanded in the talmud, but they proceed to steal and claim for themselves everything built for the succeeding 1500 years. It's not the white Europeans who built the amazing cathedral, it's actually the religion and you could easily see the same cathedral in Ethiopia as well! Same arguments are used for classical music, art, even up to the moralities of our societies themselves. It's the same destruction of your old and real culture and replacement with a universalist gigamutt race like the ummah that has the same issues as you gave for Morocco, but done in a more covert and indirect way than islam.

The Greeks had a steam engine anon

Abrahamic religion is the original woke

yes

I'm not sure what would become of me.
But even if i were to exist i would be extremely depressed since i'm naturally inclined to reflect about existence and the ultimate end. Islam is the only religion which offers a hopeful answer to all my queries which there are quite a lot of.

As for the world, it would resemble something like this. It would be more peaceful although more due to the absence of warmongering Arabs rather than the religion itself.

Even with Christianity you guys still preserved your identity. While Islam tried to Arabize Everyone. Many languages in the Middle East went extinct.

Dunno if the great schism would happen in this timeline, also with Protestantism. Christianity would prob be more decentralized. hard to speculate.

we wouldnt have any muslim kids to bomb with white phosphorus

Without a common enemy there would indeed be even more denominations in Christianity. But butterfly effect is a thing so who knows.
In terms of improvement i would say the world has become a worse place after Islam, but only because of the pernicious Umayyad influences imposed on it by the later Arabs.

Yeah current Islam is more of a political system than a religion, if Muslims kept it to themselves rather than spreading it that would've been better.

Kys faggot.. and im not even joking

the gayist thing i have ever saw today
now i want to smash you af

bro islam ruined your country more than mine -_-

this

They would be Jewish. The Himyar State in Yemen, plus recorded Jewish presence in Arabia. Monotheism was making deep inroads in Arabia. Islam itself can even be interpreted as an offshoot of Gnostic Christians exiled out of Eastern Rome. Yet without Islam, Arabs deeper in the peninsula would want to have an independent religious identity so I think they would do what the Khazars did.

It's the kikes and the globohomo West pulling the strings.
Our regime’s a is a joke—more atheist NGO than a theocracy.
And you? rope.

you do know the dark ages started after the fall of western rome, I don't expect a dumb nafri like you to know history but the least you can do is fact check your shit

literally this

Islam, and the Arab conquests unironically saved what we know as Europe and European today

gathered, saved and innovated on knowledge we either lost or

saved christianity in the East and stopped it from killing itself in the West

this thread is gay and the Moroccan is a Jew

Islam saved the Arabs from desolation, «civilized» by improving both socially and morally all directions it spread be it Europe, Africa or Asia the impact is at minimum equal, at most decidedly more than the Roman or Hellenic Ages.

without Islam, and the Persia it saved, you would be a literal illerate mongo wolf shaman instead of a (supposedly) civilized Anatolian
you absolute retarded jewcocksucking nigger there’s literally no way to start reasoning such cucked imbecility

There was not much difference in life between in the immediate year between 475 and 477. The dark ages only started with the Gothic War + Justinian Plague. The heart of antiquity was devastated by population loss.

I don't like islam at all but your shithole of a country was even more irrelevant without islam, at least muslims thought you how to write and read and develop your agriculture irrigation systems

eastern rome unironicly destroyed most of western rome than the Germanic invasions did, other than the sack of rome city most of western roman empire was still much more developed than the rest

you unironically talk like a jew, even the most islam hating ex muslims aren't this subversive.
isis should unironically behead you for being such a jewish faggot

All Abrahamic religion is Jew trash kill yourself

this
north african shitholes always act like this kike faggot.
half-assed knockoffs of east and west, LARPing identity while seething at the west they still suck off.

I'm a Muslim nigger, i just don't like how this religion became subverted by the Arabs after Muhammad's death leading to more harm than good. I wish we could return to Muhammad's Islam aka Quran but we are far too deep in superstitions to do that for now.

Is this kike posting against Islam again? Don't you get tired of making half a dozen threads a day?

It's really sad when someone's first experience with Abrahamic religion is American-Christianity/Judaism

Why don't you start by telling what reforms you'd like to see in Sunni Islam?

A taboo against inbreeding and cousin marriage would be a start. It's the reason middle eastern countries are so low IQ now.

Have I asked a Turk or some sort of jewish-loving mutt?

I hate all Abrahamic slave religions. TKD

I'm a mutt, I have what I'm told to hate

I know the things you hate, it's not hard to turn on a TV and watch the news.

Get rid of every later innovation not mentioned in Quran like hadith,fiqh,madhab,scholar,sunnah,sharia, etc. Islam has a massive tumor that needs to be cut off.

So you want to enforce Quranism on Islam, because you believe anything the narrow burrow of Quarinism is "not real Islam"? It always amazes me who Quranism always have such fervor to preach, but never to practice.

Wouldn't this require us to also edit the Quran to remove any reference to authority outside the written text, or at the very least enforce some really unusual metaphorical interpretation of the Quran?

byzantine-persian wars is what fucked it up since it made both of them weak
that is why persia got overrun by kebab tards

retard
egypt is mostly arabs
kopts are what is left of egyptians

Quran repeatedly claims to be a text easy to understand, and indeed every group of Muslims will agree with 99% of its interpretation save for a few handful of verses.
Besides there's not a single verse in Quran which refers to an outside authority, rather plenty which boast about its own sufficiency:
-"And We have sent down to you the Book as clarification for all things and as guidance and mercy and good tidings for the Muslims." [16:89]
-"Shall I seek a judge other than Allah, while it is He who has sent down to you the Book explained in detail?The word of your Lord is complete in truth and justice."[6:114]
-"These are the verses of Allah which We recite to you in truth. Then in what statement (ḥadīthin) after Allah and His verses will they believe?" [45:6]

It's amazing, how despite the sheer amount of such verses the Arabs still went on and created an entirely distinct scripture nevertheless :')

I think without Islam all types of asian tribes would have conquered the middle east

Genetically they are the same people, it's just that being an Arab is foremost a linguistic feat and a religious one secondarily. Most Egyptians adopted Arabic and Islam, thus becoming "Arabs", while a few retained their old language and faith thus remaining "Egyptians". Same phenomenon in Lebanon, where some of them larp as Arabs while others identify as Canaanites.

And it's indeed easy to understand, but it seems you didn't put the effort to understand it. Do you seriously believe one should only recite the Quran, but never study, think and act upon what is written on it, even if it's easy to see how the Quran tells one to act?

We should of course act upon it, i didn't say otherwise. I don't get your point.

so the science claims

I doubt your parents are that set up

you are a arab living in the west the only thing you need to worry about setting up is plumbing supplies next to my toilet chop chop

The point is the things like Fiqh or Madhab are a natural, logic and good summary from the Quran, not some external element added later.

The systematization of the logic and truth contained in the Quran.

Whereas only a handful of laws are actually derived from Quran, while the overwhelming majority are outsourced from hadith or ray. Let's say, nothing in Quran even remotely implies circumcision. You know, it's not hard to imagine that Islam is meant to guide people to truth rather than try to dictate every single aspect of their lives. If there's a necessity, we can refer to your own constitutions.

Let's say, nothing in Quran even remotely implies circumcision.

Not directly, but the Quran does reference the Torah and the law contained in it. A for of Quranism that refuses any reference is pretty radical.

If there's a necessity, we can refer to your own constitutions.

Like the nature of our bodies, what pleases and what hurts?

*A form of

But what you preach seems to be mostly benign, you could very well follow it in your personal life and see if others follow the virtue you display, instead of preaching.

it's not hard to imagine that Islam is meant to guide people to truth rather than try to dictate every single aspect of their lives

do you feel guided towards the truth or do you recognize institutions should enforce moral law ?
tolerance breeds corruption, corruption builds decay. name one system that operates fictionally based on human choice alone, we didn't go through thousands of years of civilizational evolution just to regress to "let people do what they want in private"

But he has a point, the enforcement of morality can be, and very often is, extremely unpleasant, specially when people of "petty virtue" do it.

exactly, that why centuries of hadiths and religious thought was made the whole islamic legal system "sharia" is based on analyzing interpreting both the Quran and hadiths and logic to see which best implementations serve society best.
but no he might be a turkish secularists who would say "we should follow western liberal moral law and religion should be kept as a cultural thing"
the dumbest thing is the quran explicitly says to decapitate or exile war criminals, it's only after years of Fiqh did they come to the conclusion that punishment methods can change based on time periods that why most muslims don't cut the hands of thief or stone whores you only see that shit in radicals like talibans and isis

I'm not him to know his situation, so I'll assume the best of him, that he's a good true believer who genuinely had terrible experiences with the enforcement of morality and believes that the will to do good,and the Quran are enough to keep a society in happy and in good order.

If this is the case, putting an extra effort into studying and following the way of God will greatly easy the societal pressure, quite ironically.

let's have dialog no conflict

yeah well if only the world was that simple, people will fight each other for the most insignificant things imaginable

Things are more often than not simple, they are just never easy.

Like, assuming the best for this anon, if he put a lot of effort into reading and following the Quran, the societal pressure of following moral rules would be greatly reduced, as what he feels internally would better fit what is externally expected.

You are all retarded cunts.
It would most likely be Nestorian and not much would change. Nestorians rejected hypostatic union, Original Sin, and so on. Christcuck America and Kikes would still be at war with Iran and causing havoc. A lot of it is just pretext for complex competing economic reasons / power projection.
Zoroastrianism was dying out because it was a retarded tradition, which is obvious to anyone who actually reads the primary material like Vendidad, which is superstitious and sick BS.

Humans would be building cities on Mars

You are so fucking stupid. The smell of your brain rot is making me suffocate. Please off yourself asap if you are over the age of 30. I can forgive someone being that retarded if they're young, immature, and without much life experience or technical knowledge.